interview giants edition 1

Interviews With Giants: Volume 1 Over 160 pages of revelation from the world’s leading researchers on global conspiracies and the end times

The Interview With Giants Series will cover interviews from key experts tackling every single aspect of the global world government agenda including chemtrails, medical conspiracies, 2012, secret societies, the mark of the beast technology, the rise of the european union, the north american union, the jesuits, stargates, armageddon, sustainable development, the power and symbology behind popular music and hollywood and so much more.

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Disclaimer Please note not all the content of these interviews necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Rema Marketing. We advise you to continue to do your own continued extensive research on the subject matters as a matter of diligence. This production may not be copied or reproduced without the express permission of Rema Marketing. This publication is a special production of the team behind the Vision Report Watch. For further details see www.visionreportwatch.com

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INTERVIEWS WITH GIANTS VOLUME I: 1

INTERVIEW WITH BENJAMIN FULFORD A fascinating interview on the role of the Far East in the future and the fact that there are ideological differences between the Illuminati and certain world regions. This interview provides clear evidence of this tension.

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INTERVIEW WITH CHUCK MISSLER Chuck Missler is interviewed by Sid Roth on the connections between UFO’s, Extraterrestrial activity and the Bible’s references to the Nephilim and how this relates to the future.

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DANIEL ESTULIN’S PRESENTATION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT This ranks as one of the most incredible opportunities that any bible prophecy teacher or global conspiracy researcher has had to bring their findings in such a way to a high level political audience.

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THE ANGLO SAXON MISSION An interview with an insider of a Masonic Circle who provides insights on what was discussed behind closed doors in top secret meeting in London England.

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INTERVIEW WITH SVALI: EX ILLUMINATI MEMBERS There is no higher profile case of an Illuminati defector than that of Svali. This interview addresses many of the questions that have been raised about the Illuminati such as who is the head of the Illuminati, the connection between the Illuminati and Freemasonry etc.

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INTERVIEW WITH DR DAVID REAGAN One of the most trusted bible prophecy teachers David Reagan, provides a detailed overview of the several coming world wars he believes are defined within biblical prophecy. A significant clarification on the meaning of Armageddon in the context of what the Bible says about the end times.

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INTERVIEW WITH DAN BURISCH Edition 7 of the Vision Report Watch covered the concept of “stargates”. Dan Burisch who is famously known for having worked with the top secret military projects and advanced technology provides more insight as to how the whole stargate concept came about.

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INTERVIEW WITH DAVID ICKE Never without controversy David Icke is interviewed over the contents of one of his most popular books, “The Biggest Secret”. In the interview Icke goes into detail regarding his belief about a super natural race of reptilians. Some Christian scholars also hold to this view citing the genesis reference to “seed of the serpent”.

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INTERVIEW WITH WENDY ALEC The Chronicles of Brothers series has been a significant contribution to Christian fiction and in this interview Wendy Alec shares her motivations and aspirations for this series.

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INTERVIEW WITH BENJAMIN FULFORD Benjamin Fulford (born 1961) is a journalist of Canadian descent living in Japan. He is currently a Japanese citizen. From 1998 until 2005 he was the Asian Bureau chief for Forbes magazine. His father was a Canadian ambassador, and his childhood was split between Ottawa and various Latin American countries. In the early 1980s he came to Japan to study at Sophia University. After receiving a B.A. from the University of British Colombia he returned to Japan in the mid-1980s to pursue a career in journalism, He worked in Japan as a correspondent for Knight Ridder, the International Financing Review, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun and the South China Morning Post before moving to Forbes magazine, where he was the Asian Bureau chief from 1998 to 2005. His investigative reports pursued scandals in the Japanese government and business world. After leaving Forbes he wrote a series of books in Japanese. He conducted an interview with the reclusive David Rockefeller in November 2007. He has given a number of interviews to investigative journalists, and therein claimed amongst others that: •

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AIDS and SARS are bio-engineered weapons designed to reduce the African ("Black") and Asian populations. AIDS was created to reduce the African population, and SARS was meant to reduce the Asian populations of the world. A Chinese secret society with a membership of 6 million (intellectuals like professors in various fields, scientists, politicians, etc.), this includes 1.8 million gangsters, and 100,000 professional assassins has issued an ultimatum to the Illuminati, warning them that if they persist with their plan to depopulate the earth, they will be killed. The society has created an alliance joining China, Russia, India, South America, ASEAN, the free Muslim nations and Africa that is united in stopping the Illuminati. The 9/11 terrorist attacks were an "inside job" carried out by the US government as a false flag attack to bring about new imperial mobilization. The Pentagon, the oil industry, banking elite, and the pharmaceutical industry suppress inventions including free-energy and anti-gravity technology to maintain power. Since 2009, Fulford has stated that the US government, using a secret military program known as HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) has been altering the climate, and using high power microwave energy inducing earthquakes including the Asian Tsunami (2004) and earthquakes in Japan (1995), China (2008), Haiti (2010), Chile (2010).

The upcoming interview is one in which he appeared on the Jeff Rense show to address some of the key discoveries he has made regarding the tension between the Illuminati and their struggle against China and the Far East. This is of great interest because Revelation 16 states that as the New World Order fragments in the climax to the Second Coming of Christ, that a great army known as the Kings of the East will march towards the Middle East to confront a Western Power which will be in control of the Middle East at that specific time. 4 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: I think we're up and running here. A little rocky, the day after the fourth of July, but I think we're connected to Japan. This is going to be interesting. An awful lot of email has been coming in about the story from Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., called "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati." This is a very interesting story, something the likes of which I have not seen in all the years of doing this program or website. The author is Benjamin Fulford - the author quoted in the story. He is a North American, Canadian to be specific, expatriate living in Japan now. Let's just bring him on and say hello, see how he's doing and check this connection out. Are you there, Ben? FULFORD: Yeah, I'm here. RENSE: OK, we've got a little bit of delay. FULFORD: It's a cell phone, so the reception is not so good. RENSE: Well, you sound all right. There's a bit of a delay, so we'll have to deal with that. A lot of people have been asking me, could this be real? Is this a hoax? Is this a joke? What is it? We're going to find out much more about this story, so stay with us tonight as we continue this conversation with Benjamin Fulford. He is the former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes Magazine, and he quit in disgust when Forbes refused to run a damaging story about one of its advertisers. Boy, I know that game, and many of us in the media do - [those] who try to tell as close to the truth as we can without losing our jobs. In this case, Ben did eventually lose his job, because Forbes wouldn't back him. It's a story I've heard before. He speaks as a very principled man - a reporter, journalist in the best tradition. Let's find out from Ben exactly what happened. First of all, Ben, when were you named Asian bureau chief for Forbes, and what was your background before that, if you would? FULFORD: Okay. I've been a journalist in Japan for about 20 years. I was bureau chief for Forbes from 1998 to 2004-2005. RENSE: That's a good long stretch. FULFORD: Then I left for a lot of different complications. RENSE: Your relationship with Forbes, up until the time you decided to part ways with them, was how? You were there with them for almost eight years, I guess. FULFORD: It started out as a rather cushy job. They let me investigate a lot of stuff about Japanese organized crime and the seedier side of things in Japan. However, at a certain point I seemed to be getting too close to something they didn't want me to get to, and they started stopping stories. There was a corruption story about GE that didn't make it. Another one about Citibank didn't make it.

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Then when I finally found out there was an anti-virus software company who was actually making viruses, that was it. RENSE: [Laughs] Yeah. FULFORD: That was the last straw for me. RENSE: They do that, I've heard. Why not? Once in a while you hear about firemen actually starting fires. I don't know, it's bizarre. That's what software companies that are in the anti-virus protection business are accused of doing from time to time - if not directly, then indirectly. It wouldn't surprise me. When did you learn to speak Japanese? FULFORD: Well, I went to university in Japan. I came here when I was 19, and I've been here more than 20 years, so I just got it early on. RENSE: Did it come easy to you? FULFORD: Well, it's a very difficult language. Not grammatically, but because you have to grasp a whole new way of thinking. You have to understand that Asian culture and Western culture parted ways about 40,000 years ago. RENSE: [Laughs] FULFORD: That means there's 40,000 years of folk wisdom that you have to catch up with to really understand what's going on, and that's very, very difficult. RENSE: You mean four thousand, instead of forty thousand. There was nobody around back then, supposedly. FULFORD: What I mean is genetic tests show that's when we separated - Orientals and Caucasians. RENSE: I got it. Okay. Now with respect to the Asian mind, Western minds - the American mind in particular, we'll just keep it to North America and Canada - are not basically understood. I predicate that statement on not having been there, not having any experience, but having talked to the former TIME bureau chief for Beijing on the program some years ago. He said, when I asked him what the Asian mind thought about American Western diplomacy, in China specifically, he laughed. He said they consider Americans to be but children in a sandbox. That's the gulf we're talking about here. Now would that remark ring true to you in any way? FULFORD: Yes, in part. Another way they look at Western society is as a slave society. RENSE: Slave society? FULFORD: A slave society. RENSE: Well, indeed it is. Go ahead. FULFORD: Controlled in secret by a group of, well, Huckleberry Finn slave drivers.

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RENSE: Well, we call them Illuminati, we call them Bilderbergers, CFR, Trilateral Commission. We can throw in Skull and Bones, the Club of Rome, the Fabian Society - all sorts of secret cartels, cabals and groups. But at the top, it's a fairly singular power source, and it is certainly one of slave-owner to slaves. The encumbering of the slaves is becoming ever more adroit. With each passing month, it seems, the technology and politics are changing so quickly over here. The view from Japan of North America. Let's talk about the United States. How is it for you, an expatriate from Canada? FULFORD: Living in Japan, you mean? RENSE: Yeah. What's it look like over there? What we're doing over here. And I mean 'we' with President Bush, Vice President Cheney, of course enjoying the lowest ratings, probably, in Presidential and Vice Presidential history. The American polls show the respect for the US Congress virtually around 14-15 percent in terms of job satisfaction. So tell me more. FULFORD: It looks like maybe Russia did just before the Iron Curtain fell. It looks like a huge sea change is about to happen. Like the biggest thing since the Declaration of Independence, I think. RENSE: Well yes, almost the antithesis of [the Declaration of Independence]. I can see how that would be a view from over there, and it's probably far more loaded with merit than we would like to agree. Things are happening over here, as I think you well know, at a very rapid pace now. The controllers are literally pushing things in the American public's face that are so unconstitutional and illegal as to be laughable, if they weren't so tragic. FULFORD: I think these people are scared. They are trying to carry out a plan. They are desperate now. Their plan is so horrendous and so bizarre, it provokes a split - even within their own ranks. RENSE: I've heard talk of factions. You mentioned the words "they are desperate," the key word being 'desperate.' There are others who have said the same kind of thing - [the controllers] sense there is a window through which they must move, now, if they are ever going to move. Do you agree with that? FULFORD: Yes. Let me tell you something. I was offered the job of finance minister in Japan by the Freemasons. Okay? RENSE: When? FULFORD: I brought [my case against] David Rockefeller. I actually was able to link him to some murders of bankers and other people in Japan, as a part of his effort to take over the Japanese financial system. When I confronted the former Japanese finance minister, Heizo Takanaka (ph) with this, he sent a ninja, believe it or not - a real live ninja - who offered me a gold Freemason badge. He told me I could either accept a job of great power or be killed. At first I thought I had no choice, I had to go along, which is what happens to a lot of people when they get pulled into this. But then the Chinese secret society showed up and offered me protection. So that's why I can talk about this. 7 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

I want to tell you. I got right inside, right at the very top. Anybody up to a 33rd degree Freemason is a chump. They think they're doing good for humankind and they're doing God's work. There are 13 degrees above the 33rd degree. RENSE: So I've heard. FULFORD: The first thing they learn is that there is no God. We are God. This is what they are taught. And they are, believe it or not, the descendants of Babylonian pirates. This goes back almost 6000 years. It's ancient Babylonian slave-driver technology. They use a combination of bribes, murder, ostracism, mind control, whatever. They have a huge arsenal. They think very, very long term. The story I've figured out now is that when they started with the Zionism, they had this plan to make a capital in Jerusalem. A lot of the religious Jews thought of this as blasphemy, but they actually did it. And then there was a convergence. There was a really radical faction that had this plan to eliminate Christianity. Now this is going to sound so horrendous, believe me... RENSE: Hold on right there, Ben. Let me ask you to pause. We'll take a break, and come back to that thought. Eliminating Christianity. Very interesting. Lots already on the table here. My guest is Benjamin Fulford, the former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes magazine, who has just a stunningly provocative piece up on the site written by Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., who interviewed Ben at great length. You'll see it up there on Featured Stories, on the left hand side of my home page. So by all means, take a look. Right under that, a story written by Benjamin Fulford - the Secret History of the Freemasons in Japan - as well. Be back in a minute. RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. He, by the way, has published 15 books written in Japanese, with cumulative sales running at over half a million copies. He's got his own weekly two-hour television program over there, appears frequently on numerous other nationally broadcast programs in Japan, and has regular columns in a variety of best-selling Japanese magazines. My guest, Benjamin Fulford. Lucky to connect with him. At showtime we couldn't get through to his land line, which I had a hunch might be the case. These controversial subjects, one never knows who might be playing phone games. We have him on the line right now. Go ahead and tell us, then, what this story about abolishing Christianity is about. Is that about the one world, New World Order religion? FULFORD: Yes. What I first got wind of was a plan to kill Asians - reduce the population of Asians. They told me, once I was invited in, that they had a plan to reduce the population of Asians. RENSE: Okay, excuse me, Ben, but when you say "They invited you in," who is 'They' and what were you 'in'? FULFORD: What happened was I interviewed Heizo Takanaka (ph), the former Japanese finance minister. 8 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: What year was this, approximately? FULFORD: This year, in fact. I hit a tender spot. I confronted him with having sold the Japanese financial system over to the Rockefellers. Then he sent the ninja, who offered me to join the Freemasons. They offered me the job as finance minister. RENSE: If I might interject here, please explain what it is. Most Americans and most listening in Canada, or wherever they're listening from around the world, won't understand why or how the Rockefellers are so heavily entrenched and powerful in Japan. In point of fact, the Rockefellers, I guess, own much of Japan, and have since World War Two. So tell us a little bit about that background, if you would. FULFORD: The Rockefellers, you have to understand their real influence. Everybody outside of America seems to know how powerful they are, but they try to hide this fact from their own people. You have to go back to the very first Rockefeller. You have to go back to 1918. This is what Forbes magazine figured out... RENSE: John Rockefeller? FULFORD: Yeah. He was worth about 250 billion in today's money. And the ten richest people controlled about 70 percent of the money supply. This was before they took over the financial system the Fed. What they've done is hidden it all through a series of charitable foundations. There's over two hundred, three hundred foundations. They use this to finance universities, to finance research. So they control through money, and they hide it through these foundations. If you do a check, you will see David Rockefeller is only worth three billion or so. That's because the rest of it is hidden in these charitable foundations, which they own and control. RENSE: Okay, name a few of them. Just give us a few. FULFORD: Well, the Rockefeller foundation, for one. There's a whole bunch. Just look under Google with Rockefeller and Foundation, and you'll see so many. They're always considered the secret rulers of the United States, and much of the world. They are the hidden patriarchs of this secret government. RENSE: Okay. How did the Rockefellers, on the planet, stand up to the Rothschilds? FULFORD: There is an alliance and a split as well. The Rothschilds originally set the Rockefellers up. They helped them monopolize oil. What happened was the Rockefellers got very strong, and became the more dominant partners in the whole enterprise. Europe is still basically controlled by the Rothschilds. The head of the Rothschild side of the clan is Phillip Rothschild, in London. There is another group that controls France, Belgium and Holland, which is the Grand Lodge of the Orient in France, and is another branch of the Rothschilds. There was a German branch of the Rothschilds. They have laid low since Hitler was purged.

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You have to think of it as royalty. Royal families interbred with old financial families. They interbreed with each other and they keep control that way. The Freemasons are one of the secret societies they use to control European and North American society. RENSE: Who uses the Freemasons? The Rothschilds or the Rockefellers, or both? FULFORD: They both do. They also control Mossad and the CIA, as far as I can tell. Most of the people in the CIA think they're working for the United States of America. The reality is they are working for robber barons. So that's how people look at the United States. They look at it as an enclave controlled by the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers. RENSE: How did that extend to Japan? By virtue of the victory in World War II? FULFORD: Yes. It keeps being a Rothschild sphere of influence and became a Rockefeller sphere of influence. You have to understand the Japanese were pretty independent before World War II, but they had close associations with the Rothschilds, who originally financed their modernization. RENSE: They also pushed the Japanese to engage in the Russo-Japanese war, did they not? FULFORD: Yes. Absolutely. They armed them for it, and they helped them, and it was a very successful venture. The Japanese had a deep gratitude as a result. To this day, they have very friendly feelings. RENSE: All right. Let's pause on that, and we'll come back and find out about the eradication of Christianity on the planet, and the Masonic influence, being of course employed at the behest of the Rockefellers and / or the Rothschilds. So we'll explore that. My guest is Benjamin Fulford, who has a dynamite article up there, courtesy of the superb, I call him brilliant writer, Henry Makow, Ph.D., who did a lot of research on this and interviewed Ben at great length. We're very honored to have it. You'll see it up there in Featured Stories. "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati." Be right back with Ben Fulford in just a minute. RENSE: Okay, the plan to eliminate Christianity. Now you mentioned how the Rothschilds and the Zionists set up their Jerusalem and their Middle East. FULFORD: What they did was they tried to make the Bible prophecy come true, without the intervention of God. In other words, they did it. It wasn't any Divine intervention. So they are God. They believe themselves to be as powerful as God. [They believe] there is no God; they are the equivalent [of God] on Earth. They are the descendants of Babylonian tyrants. So one thing I've been hearing, and this was disturbing - when I was invited to join - was that they did plan to reduce the world's population by seven billion people.

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RENSE: This goes back to Global 2000. One more word about this severely atheistic organization, which is using organized religion to hide behind, as they always have. It's not a big surprise. And of course, that leads to all kinds of difficulties, shall we say. But it's an interesting thing to know. Okay. You were invited to join the organization. A Rockefeller ninja was sent to make you an offer you could not refuse. But you decided not to accept. FULFORD: Yes. RENSE: How did you decide not to accept? We have plenty of time. So you get the offer, and what happened? FULFORD: The next day I get contacted by a gentleman who says he represents a Chinese secret society. RENSE: The very next day. FULFORD: The very next day. RENSE: And how did that person know to contact you the very next day? How did you determine later on that he or she might have known that? FULFORD: I don't know. They keep their secrets quite well. I assume they have a mole very high up in the organization. You have to understand that the Chinese secret society also has deep roots in Japan. Maybe I should give you a brief history of these people. I recognized them from the history books. So when they approached me, I already had some knowledge about them. RENSE: May I ask another question? How did they approach you? Did they call you and say, "Ben, we'd like to talk to you," or did they just come knocking at your door? What happened? FULFORD: I got a phone call from a gentleman who said he'd like to meet me and talk about something important. RENSE: Was he speaking English or Japanese? FULFORD: Japanese. RENSE: All right. So let's go back and do a little history on this organization now. FULFORD: Okay. The Ming dynasty was the high point in Chinese history. This was when their civilization reached a peak. They were invaded by some very uncouth barbarians known as the Manchus. When this happened, the Ming army - they were betrayed by a border general - became an underground organization, a secret society. So there are two branches. The old Ming army and the old Ming navy. These are their descendants. They wanted to over throw the Qing [formed by the Manchus] and restore the Ming. Their first big attempt was what we know of as the Boxer Rebellion. Then later they got huge help from the Japanese royal family, from the Meiji. 11 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: That's M-E-I-J-I, correct? FULFORD: Yeah. These are the people who modernized Japan. So we're talking about the beginning of the 1900s. RENSE: So the Meiji family modernized Japan at the beginning of the 1900s. All right. FULFORD: Yeah. It was a bunch of Freemasons set up by the Rothschilds. RENSE: That's how the Rothschilds first got involved with Japan and China. I understand. FULFORD: Right. Unknown to the Rothschilds - or maybe they knew at the time, I don't know - the Japanese helped this Chinese secret society overthrow the Ming dynasty. They also got help from Chinatowns all over the world, which is where they have their bases. This is how Sun Yat-Sen overthrew the last emperor. RENSE: So you're saying, in a way, Sun Yat-Sen was a tool of the Masons, who were a tool of the Rothschilds. FULFORD: Well, in appearances it is like that. The Asians don't particularly want to be ruled by white people, so it doesn't really work in fact all around. They'll take their money, but they're not going to do everything they're told. RENSE: That was the political mechanism, in so many words. That's how Sun Yat-Sen assumed power. Okay. FULFORD: He was later ousted. As you know, the Japanese invaded China, and they were trying to take it over. It was a huge battle over the future of the planet, which evolved into World War II. They were fighting a proxy war in China for over a decade before World War II started. RENSE: Very few Americans understand that. FULFORD: The secret society ended up fighting the communist Chinese, being defeated and going underground. RENSE: So they were a part of Chiang Kai-Shek's apparatus. They were supporting him, allies? FULFORD: Well, they were allied with him, as I said, but not part of his apparatus. RENSE: Okay, so they were fighting with him, supporting him, and he lost. Okay. Mao Zedong? FULFORD: ...was financed by the Soviet Union, by the Rothschilds on that side of the equation. Then they kicked out the connection in the 1960s, and China became independent from Rothschild and Freemason control. RENSE: Was that a big shock to the Rothschilds at the time, or did they see it coming? FULFORD: No! It was a big shock. There was all this talk about "who lost China?" This was a major blow for them. But they never really controlled China. Like I said, the Chinese were on to them, and onto their game. They weren't going to be fooled.

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RENSE: How did the British East India Company and the opium wars play into this in the 18th and 19th centuries? FULFORD: The story there is the British - while everyone else was buying lots of tea and had nothing to pay for it with - invaded China, unfortunately to buy opium, so they could have their tea. That was a war of invasion. But they couldn't control China. It was just too big for them to manage. So instead they just threatened them and kept them as a vassal state, in that sense. RENSE: They had enough trouble with the United States before, and it was known as the colonies, but yes - trying to control China, I can see, would be virtually [impossible]. FULFORD: It's worth noting that the Skull and Bones were opium and slave traders. So they were deeply involved in all this. ENSE: A lot of Zionists were in the slave trade too. A tremendous Zionist / Jewish participation in that filthy business. FULFORD: Sure. There is still trading going on to this day. RENSE: Well, that's called white slavery. I don't know how many tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of women and children are sold into slavery through various conduits that often run into Israel every year. FULFORD: Sure. RENSE: We're going to pursue the issue of Christianity and its future, or lack thereof, in a few minutes. We're doing a little background now on the Chinese secret society, which actually came to the rescue, as it were. Ben would either be filthy rich now, or dead. FULFORD: [Laughs] RENSE: [Laughs] Go ahead. FULFORD: Just to divert a bit, it is what is known in folklore as making a deal with the Devil, right? They offer you, I would have been finance minister and I would have earned billions of dollars - looting the Japanese to finance genocide. RENSE: Which goes back to our earlier comment about reducing the world population, which we're going to get to. We have a lot of time tonight. That, of course, goes back to the actual printed projection of reducing the world population called Global 2000, by 75 or 80 percent. But we'll get back to that in a few minutes. Go ahead. FULFORD: When I left the Chinese, at first I didn't know what to make of it. RENSE: How was your meeting with them, Ben? Did they come to your place and sit down and talk to you? FULFORD: No, no. In a hotel room. RENSE: Was it one person or two? 13 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

FULFORD: Two people. RENSE: Male or female? FULFORD: Male. RENSE: Dressed? FULFORD: Dressed in pretty ordinary, not very expensive-looking clothing. RENSE: Okay. They sat you down. You had never heard about this secret society before, correct? FULFORD: Oh, I had, I had! RENSE: But not in terms of it being active to the extent that it might pop up in your life. You'd heard about it in the past. FULFORD: I've studied Chinese history. I read about them in the history books as the Green and the Red Gang, who fought the communists in Shanghai, in 1949. RENSE: That was my point. Go ahead, please. FULFORD: For me it was like a ghost from the history books appearing in front of me. They told me they had a membership worldwide of six million, including 1.8 million gangsters - all the Asian gangsters in the world - and 100,000 professional assassins. Now, I wasn't sure whether or not to believe these people. I later flew to Taiwan and met the heads. We were surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of men in black suits who looked like gangsters. I was getting some martial arts displays. I believe they are not lying when they say they have six million members, and a lot of them are RENSE: Now are they headquartered in Taiwan, or did they just pick that as a meeting place for you? FULFORD: No. They are headquartered in Taiwan. It's a very secret organization. They don't really have a building where they say, "This is our headquarters." RENSE: They've been there since Chiang Kai-Shek fled there in 1949, I guess, and before that. FULFORD: They've infiltrated the Chinese government right up to the politburo level. They are all over China and all over the world. The Japanese Yakuza gangs are also a part of this. Many of them. RENSE: The Yakuza? FULFORD: Yes. Yakuza gangsters. There's about 150 thousand of them throughout Japan. RENSE: Let's talk for a moment about their projection of power in the United States. There are a lot of Asians now, some Asian gangs. Certainly there are Chinatowns around the US. In every big city there is a Chinese community. Are they projecting power through those various locations and venues? FULFORD: Absolutely. They are everywhere. Remember that 2/3rds of the members are scholars, not gangsters. These will be people working as researchers, for example, in government laboratories, or as university professors. 14 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: Now we know, Ben, there are lots of Chinese over here in the United States. At the university level, certainly doing contract work for very important corporations. By the tens of thousands, they are over here. Now is this People's Liberation Army, or is this a secret society, or is it both? FULFORD: These people are anti-Communist. You've got to get that clear. They are not part of the People's Republic of China. RENSE: So the PLA has spies all over the place here, but the secret society is not part of that. They are completely opposed to it. FULFORD: Yeah. They are a totally separate organization. But they do have membership, of course, in the Chinese secret police, et cetera. It's a weird mix. If they do have one loyalty, the rules I was told were to protect the weak, fight against injustice, to help each other. There is nothing I would find morally objectionable in what they told me were their codes. It just reads like a book of morals. RENSE: It sounds like good old-fashioned values. That would work here. So you had this meeting in Taiwan. Where did that take place, and what was the meeting like? Who were the people you met with? I don't expect you to name them or show us pictures on the Internet, but what did these people say? FULFORD: Well, it was a meeting upstairs in a small Chinese restaurant, in a small, nondescript room. RENSE: Geez! It sounds like a Hollywood movie! FULFORD: [Laughs] Yeah! And these guys looked like something out of a Hollywood movie. Some of them were missing like four fingers. One guy I met said he personally killed a hundred people. They were pretty scary, funky people, let me tell you that. Some of them had two Ph.D.'s, and were very sophisticated and charming. RENSE: The core group you met with were numbered how many? FULFORD: Well, there was a dozen, and then the real core... I don't know how much I should be able to disclose, but, you know, I mean, uh... RENSE: Well, you don't have to go any further than you don't want to. FULFORD: They explained to me - they understood the urgency, that there was a genocide plan, and they were manufacturing diseases. RENSE: When I said you don't have to go any further than you don't want to, I imagine you don't have to go any further than you want to, of course. I misspoke there. The gist of this, the crux of this thing was their concern of an ethnic-specific bio-weapon, perhaps, or something along those lines, that would eradicate much of the Asian population base? FULFORD: Yes. And SARS was artificially manufactured. RENSE: SARS, of course, first popped up in Guangdong Province in China, I believe, where the Chinese maintain, the People's Liberation Army has one or two bio-weapons labs in Guangdong. Guangdong is 15 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

also where H5N1 seemingly originated. That's one of the most lethal strains of it in the bird community worldwide. So yeah, interesting. Go right ahead. FULFORD: They don't like the idea of plans to wipe out... what the Japanese freemason told me, the one connected to Rockefeller, was the plan was to reduce Asia's population to 500 million. And Japan was ordered to reduce their population to 75 million. RENSE: Ordered by? FULFORD: By the Rockefellers and the Freemasons, and these interbred Illuminati. They tried to do it from birth control, which is ideal, but if not, then through disease or war - whatever is necessary. RENSE: Okay. You mentioned SARS, and it broke out. Interestingly enough, I'm going to make a point here. I think it's very germane. You're an ex-Canadian. Now SARS took a big toll of people in Canada healthcare workers in hospitals specifically. In one hospital I know they lost a lot of people. At one point in the SARS - we won't call it an epidemic, but in the SARS outbreak here, they printed, in a major Canadian newspaper, pictures of all the fatalities of SARS in Canada. And there were about 50 to 100, Ben. I looked at those pictures and I said to myself, "Uh-oh. SARS comes from China." I looked at these pictures, and all but 2 or 3 or 4 of the people - and let's just say there were 50 - were Asians! They were all Asians! FULFORD: SARS affects people with only a certain genotype - and most of these people are Asian. RENSE: All right. That ties in with the picture I saw. FULFORD: Look at the Project for a New American Century, page 60, "Rebuilding America's Defenses." They are saying bio-weapons that can target specific genotypes can be used for political tools. RENSE: Well, they've had that capability for 20-25 years, at least. They can target blue eyes, green eyes, blonde hair, brown hair, height, weight. Certainly anything to do with race or genetics can be programmed into bio-weapons. That's not a surprise. The SARS thing was, in your opinion, what? Something introduced by the West to let the Chinese know that they are going to get... FULFORD: They were going to attempt to cull the Chinese population. RENSE: So that was a full-blown attempt to massively infect China with some kind of a pandemic that would wipe out a great deal of the people there? That wasn't just an experiment or a calling card or a wake-up call? FULFORD: No. I believe it was a sincere attempt to kill them. And of course, people don't like being killed, which is why this society re-activated itself after being dormant for so many years. It's like an emergency fire brigade. Normally people just go about their lives and do their jobs - they don't do anything illegal. But if there is a crisis, they all band together. 16 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

An interesting thing, as a digression. When Sun Yat-Sen took over, he found the Imperial Treasure - a horde of treasure built up by the Chinese emperors over the millennia. When the Communists took over, some of this treasure was shipped off to the National Palace Museum in Taiwan, but some of it was hidden in a mountain in China. The Communists tortured three thousand people to try to find out where it was, and nobody spoke. This is their emergency war chest, which they will dig up and spend if they feel... RENSE: You mean the secret society. FULFORD: Yes. RENSE: Okay. So the Chinese communists could not find half of the treasure. Half went to Taiwan, half remained on the mainland. This is the secret society's bankroll? FULFORD: Yes. It's their emergency fund for rainy days. RENSE: It must be a pretty handsome fund for rainy days. FULFORD: Yes. It's [worth] billions of dollars. RENSE: Yeah, I would think. Stand by, if you would, Ben. We have to take a break here and will be back momentarily. We'll come right back and continue our wide-ranging conversation. It's quite focused, really, when you look at the totality of it. Again, SARS, when you look at Ben Fulford and his Chinese / Asian contact, was an attack. He believes it was a full-blown attack to unleash a bio-specific agent in China, a virus, to wipe out most Chinese. That might account for some of the exclamations of the Chinese general staff, the second in command of the military, who has said twice now that China is preparing to wage and to win a nuclear war with the United States. Now maybe he was talking about the Rockefeller interests in the United States. I don't know. RENSE: We're talking about the Asian / Chinese secret society, which has tentacles all over the world. It is more than concerned about the plans, and apparently one failed attempt, to massively reduce the Chinese population, enroute to an overall world population reduction of some 80 percent. At least that's our understanding of the plans of a faction of the world elite, the Illuminati, the controllers, and so forth. Okay, Ben. You had your meeting in Taiwan. You met upstairs in a rather plain, nondescript room in a Chinese restaurant. You met with these guys. They are well-dressed guys at this point, would you say? FULFORD: Some of them were obviously billionaires, and some were senior government figures. Some of them... RENSE: How could you think they were obviously billionaires, Ben? What was it about them that made you feel that? FULFORD: Well, the list of companies they owned... RENSE: Did they present their own CV to you to prove their pedigree? 17 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

FULFORD: [With] some of them, you can see their faces in the newspaper all the time. RENSE: I see. Okay. With your knowledge, you knew who some of them were. FULFORD: Yeah. RENSE: And again, some of them, Ben Fulford would never have guessed. These are professional people, they're not bums. Here they are, saying "Ben, we trust you not to talk about this too much. And what we're trying to do is..." What did they say they were trying to accomplish? FULFORD: They want to stop these people, obviously. RENSE: Who are 'these people'? The Rockefeller, Rothschild, Freemasons and Illuminati? FULFORD: The Rockefellers, the Illuminati families. RENSE: Would you call them anti-Asian? Westerners? What would you call them? FULFORD: They are racists, but they are more than that. They want to enslave humanity. RENSE: Okay. And the fewer the number left around, the easier it is to enslave them. So they want a skeleton crew, so to speak, left in China to run things. FULFORD: They like the Chinese. They want to keep some Chinese around because they make good stuff cheap, no? RENSE: Yeah, just like they want to keep some Africans around in sub-Saharan Africa to work the FULFORD: Right. That sort of thinking. Their plan, as I was told by the Japanese Illuminati, was to weaken China through disease, and also starvation. They are trying to engineer a global food shortage by creating viruses that affect our major food crops. Then they want to provoke a war by getting Taiwan to declare independence. Their hope, by that time, is to have the Japanese army as a subdivision of the US army, ready to pounce on China and divide it into six countries. This was the plan told to me by very senior Japanese people. RENSE: When was this plan cooped [laughs] - kooky plan, but when was it cooked up? FULFORD: Quite a long time ago. These people think in terms of decades or even longer. RENSE: The Japanese army is not able to go in and subjugate China. This is... FULFORD: The Japanese army is one of the biggest armies in the world. It's huge. It would be working with the US Army and the Navy. RENSE: How big is the Japanese army? How many standing men in uniform? FULFORD: It's an 'instant ramen' army. What they have is lots and lots of officers and lots and lots of weapons. They have the third biggest military budget in the world. What they can do at any time is grab three million office workers off the street and turn them into soldiers. 18 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: Wow. FULFORD: That's quite huge, and very up to date. RENSE: So this plan of subjugating China with this army, and other factors like what's left of our army and military - is it a plan that is still cohesive, militarily? FULFORD: Not really. The Japanese are still going according to the original plan, but that blew up in Iraq, didn't it? RENSE: It sure did! FULFORD: The plan was to grab all the oil in the Middle East, and then go and get China. But they couldn't quite get their Middle Eastern part done. That's why, a very important thing to understand is that because the Rothschild faction split with the Rockefellers, that's when we had this "Freedom Fries" business and all this anti-French stuff. They are not getting enough financing to maintain a big army there. That's why there are 150,000 troops. The only money they're getting now is from Japan. The Europeans aren't willing to finance this adventure in Iraq anymore. So there has been a very major schism here between the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers. That's part of the reason why they can't afford to run the Iraq thing properly. RENSE: Now the [Chinese] secret society, pointing to SARS as an attempt. That's what galvanized them. I guess we come to the next obvious question. Why, then, Fulford? FULFORD: I wrote about this in a book in Japanese, which alerted them. Then they did their own research and confirmed that it was true. RENSE: You wrote about the population reduction plans? FULFORD: Yeah, and SARS and stuff, and how it only affected mainly Asians. Also an interesting little misquote can be found in the Congressional record, from July 13, 2005. You have a bio-weapons expert saying the weaponization of bird flu is taking place across Asia. In the Congressional record, they tried to erase it. I've got multiple copies stacked here and there. RENSE: We do know that on April Fool's Day, April 1st of 2005, the resident of the White House, George Bush, signed an executive order which gave the federal government - i.e. George Bush and anybody he designates - full power of quarantine over any and all Americans, towns, cities, counties, states, which have been exposed to H5N1, Avian influenza, or any other exotic, infectious microorganism. They're not taking any chances. So somebody knows something somewhere. We've been tracking this - you don't know this - on my program for some three years now, with Dr. Henry Al-Nyman (ph), Ph.D., who is a brilliant microbiologist and geneticist. He has been following this genetically from the beginning, forecasting what it would do, and how it is learning more and more about how to survive and thrive in mammals, which it is very close to doing now. It's changing all the time, and getting closer and closer to true pandemic status. 19 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Now if there is an Asian genetic factor to this, I'm not aware of it, but we do know that Indonesia is rampant with H5N1, and Vietnam, Cambodia, and Taiwan have had a lot of trouble with it. So that's a fact. FULFORD: It's also a fact that the Asians are a little over sharing the bird flu data with the Americans. [They say,] "Why should we give you stuff that will allow you to create a vaccine to protect your own people while we die?" RENSE: That makes sense. We wondered why the genomes were being withheld, why the samples were being withheld. FULFORD: The Chinese haven't been giving them for years now. They said, "The hell with that. We're not going to protect your own people while you try to kill us." RENSE: Okay. Back to the meeting in Taiwan. FULFORD: They decided that these people need to be overthrown. RENSE: The Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the Rockefellers. FULFORD: Yeah. The Illuminati. And specifically, if I have to, I will ally myself with the Rothschilds against the Rockefellers, if it comes to it. I'd rather get them both out of power, but the Rothschilds are a much mellower bunch at this point. They're [promoting] the global warming thing. It's stupid, but... RENSE: I wouldn't agree with you, but I would suggest that what they're doing in Europe with Bush's so-called defensive missiles, threatening and pushing and provoking Russia, is not particularly sanguine; it's pretty damn dangerous. The Russians today announced they are going to deploy their new Iskander (ph). It's a new mediumrange cruise missile, in Western Russia, to oppose the so-called Bush 'defensive' missiles, which of course are being placed there, or will be placed there, to knock down the Topol-M, which has also just been advanced dramatically. The Topol-M was a single-bang warhead. Now it's a MERV'ed warhead, and it has had two successful test firings. So the Topol-M is now MERV'ed, meaning it has ten independently targeted thermonuclear warheads in each rocket. Now the Topol has a triple-speed boost phase, which makes it very hard to knock down. These interceptor rockets that Bush wants to put in Europe are specifically designed to try to stop the TopolM in its boost phase. That's another story. Go ahead, please. FULFORD: What it means is we've now got the Russians and the Chinese. I've now been contacted by the Japanese secret government, and it looks like they're also going to turn against the Rockefellers. RENSE: Now the Rockefellers have the Japanese by the shorthairs, or at least they have so far. FULFORD: Yeah. They have so far. The thing is, the Japanese want to keep friendly relations with the United States. They really do like that US-Japan relationship and they don't want to damage that. But if 20 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

they can preserve that relationship and get rid of the Rockefellers, that would be very happy for them very happy indeed. RENSE: So is this suggesting some kind of cooperation between the Chinese secret society and the Japanese government, which wants liberation from the yoke of the Rothschilds? FULFORD: Absolutely! Absolutely. They are cooperating. They are going to be given an ultimatum soon. We're just waiting for all our ducks to be in a row. They are going to be given an ultimatum. When these people first contacted me, once I knew they were for real, the first thing I thought was, "We'll play 9/11 movies in Chinatowns around the world." But then I thought, "Wait a minute. These guys are really bad people." I thought about it. I realized the Illuminati and all their servants are about 10,000 people. Everyone below them - if they knew what the 10,000 were doing, they would be furious, and rip them out of their houses and hang them from the nearest lampposts. Right? RENSE: Mm hm. FULFORD: The Chinese [secret society has] six million. So that's 600 to 1 odds. More specifically, there are ten professional assassins for each member of the Illuminati. So basically it's checkmate for them. The question is how to bring this out to the public and make this a formal thing. However, killing people is something I don't like - and neither do they. So the first order of business is to try to talk, before things get radical. The point is, there is the technical ability to wipe them all out in a matter of hours. They would all be assassinated. But instead, I think, they're going to be offered an opportunity. I don't think - I know. They are going to be offered an opportunity to surrender. RENSE: Will you be playing a role in making such an offer? FULFORD: Absolutely. I am their spokesman. My job is to represent them in the Western world. I know what I am allowed to say and what I am not allowed to say. The point is this. We would start by killing David Rockefeller, and then work our way down the list until they agree to our terms. RENSE: You speak, I want to make this clear. Ben Fulford is speaking hypothetically here. FULFORD: Hypothetically. What I'm saying is that if they do not surrender... RENSE: ...or comply, or become acquiescent... FULFORD: Yes. Then we have to protect ourselves from genocide. And the way to do that, with the minimum possible death, is we start at the top of the Eye and work our way down until they agree. RENSE: So the idea would be five or ten thousand is a lot better than a billion. 21 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

FULFORD: Zero is a lot better than five or ten thousand! RENSE: And that was my next statement. Yes. I understand that. FULFORD: My job is to try to make sure that not a single person dies. That is the ideal. The commissions that are going to be offered - and I know David Rockefeller is going to be listening to this, so you'd better listen, David Rockefeller: 1. They are going to be allowed to keep their palaces and their servants. They will be given an amnesty, but they must appear before a truth commission. 2. And they must promise - them and their clan - to never, ever try again to enslave the human race. 3. And third, they must spend the rest of their lives doing good deeds. Those are the conditions. I think they're very good ones, and it's the best they have available. They'd better hurry before the American people drag them out of their houses and hang them from the nearest lampposts, which I think is about to happen anyway. RENSE: Do those conditions apply to the Rothschilds as well? FULFORD: Yeah, I mean, maybe the Rothschilds can work themselves their own deal. I'm in contact with a Rothschild representative, and maybe we can come up with something else. The main point is to stop the genocide. That is the number one goal. RENSE: What would you term what the Americans are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? We have seen the slaughter of over... FULFORD: Well, they're irradiating it with nuclear dust! RENSE: We are turning it into nuclear dust, we have killed already close to one million Iraqis since the Iraq war began over four years ago. The threat now to invade Iran, a country of 70 to 80 million people, is quite clearly on the front burner again. So this is genocide. FULFORD: Yes. RENSE: And this is not being orchestrated entirely by the Rockefellers, although I do see the connection to what you're saying. Now we want to quickly jump over to... go ahead. FULFORD: The Rockefellers are just one... I don't want to put everything on that one name. You've got to remember that you have the JP Morgan descendants. What people in America need to do is get an old Who's Who. Look up the names of the bankers, the six or seven families who took over the Fed in 1913. Get the Who's Who and look up all their descendants. And then capture all the males. The United States would wake up. It would be like the movie "The Island," where everyone suddenly wakes up and realizes they're being subjected to Freudian / Pavlovian mind control. It would be a miracle. It would be freedom!

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That's what you have to do to save America. Those are the people you need to make as your priority targets if you want to save the United States and stop this genocide. The court jesters are the Neocons, too, who are the servants of these people. RENSE: Well, the Neocons are essentially servants of the Zionist / Jewish / Rothschild cartel that is pushing the Middle East agenda, as much as we can tell. Now the oil issue, of course, appears to cross over to both sides. It appears that Zionism is taking on Russia now, and pushing very hard in that respect. The Rockefellers are hard at work in Iran, covertly, and Iraq of course overtly, and Afghanistan. That's a simplistic overview. FULFORD: They need oil to control the world. RENSE: The Chinese need oil to continue to develop and progress, as do the Japanese. FULFORD: You know what? Actually they figured out that maybe they don't need oil. They have these huge plants that are converting coal to oil now. To be honest, the Japanese had the technology to make fuel from water 30 years ago. RENSE: I think several people have, if you simply spend an hour on the Internet and look up taking hydrogen from water and actually making it burn. There is a lot of potential out there, which the petroleum companies are not too fond of. FULFORD: Yeah. Actually let me tell you a personal story... RENSE: Hold on, let's do that in just a minute, Ben, please. We have to pause. We'll do the personal story next, with Benjamin Fulford, who has just laid out some pretty interesting conditions for an alleged offer that perhaps the Illuminati can't afford to refuse. We will see. RENSE: Okay. Back with you. Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo, is with us. Pretty stunning material. All right, Ben, you had a personal story you wanted to share. Go ahead. FULFORD: My great grandfather was G.T. Fulford. He was one of the richest men in the world - George Taylor Fulford. You can find him on Wikipedia. He was one of the richest men on Earth, and he was the largest single shareholder in General Electric. He was going to finance Nikola Tesla, but he was murdered by the Rockefellers in 1905. It was made to look like a car accident. RENSE: Your grandfather. FULFORD: Great grandfather. RENSE: Great grandfather. So really! Wow. FULFORD: And the family fortune was stolen. My grandfather was only three years old at the time. The family fortune was taken over by the Rockefellers. My grandfather didn't know how to suspend his assets. I am telling the Rockefellers right now, they can think of me as the ghost of G.T. Fulford, come back over a century - from four generations - to get justice. 23 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: You speak in a very brave and cavalier way. FULFORD: I've got good people behind me! RENSE: And as I was going to say, you speak as if you are a man with great self-assurance, and you have a lot of friends. FULFORD: Absolutely. You have 100,000 assassins backing you up, you don't have to be a chicken! RENSE: Well, you don't sound like a chicken. FULFORD: No. I'm going to get these people if no one else does. If they don't agree to my terms, they are doomed. And they know it. They have the intelligence agents. You people out there, you don't know because you don't have access. You don't know if I'm lying, if I'm a crazy guy, but they do. People in the CIA, the NSA, Mossad, they know I'm not kidding. This society is real. And they are moving. So they realize this is not a bluff. This a promise. They must stop their crazy games. What these people are trying to do - I know it sounds insane. They are trying to artificially create Armageddon. They are trying to make people believe these are end times, by slaughtering people through disease and famine. I believe they even have, I know this will sound a bit crazy and you will start wondering about me, but they have some kind of microwave weapon that can heat up underground water near earthquakeprone zones, and trigger earthquakes. RENSE: Oh, I believe it. If that particular technology is true, it's probably one of two or three. They can do it with harmonic resonance, with sonic-based weapons and devices. There are a lot of ways, apparently, to get earthquake faults to move. FULFORD: So what I'm getting, the feeling is these people are trying to artificially create the appearance of end times, just like in the Bible, and fool everybody. RENSE: They seem to be playing to that script. FULFORD: And you must not be fooled, because this has nothing to do with anything spiritual or otherworldly. This is right here on this earth. And the cults these people represent, they have been known by folklore over the years. You have to start with Nimrod, the Babylonian tyrant. Then Hammurabi. Hammurabi is known to the Jews as Abraham - a Babylonian tyrant. A slave driver. These people have had a secret sect of slave drivers that is almost six thousand years old. They have very, very sophisticated methods. They use secrecy, murder, bribery and ridicule as their main weapons. They have had a very good run, but this is checkmate for them, as far as I am concerned.

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They are not going to get away with this. They'd better realize it. It's game up. They've been exposed. People know about them. They are onto their game. And it's not going to work. All you've got to do is target the Eye. Hollywood - the people in Hollywood have been trying to warn the Americans for years! If you look at Tolkien's movie, you have this Eye on the top of a mountain. Destroy the Eye and save the world. Or [destroy] the masters. Stanley Kubrick gave up his life to expose these people. So you've got to remember this isn't [associated with] the Jews. The Jews are your best friends in fighting these people, because they've been their biggest victims over the years. RENSE: Well, we're talking about Zionists here, not Jews. FULFORD: Exactly. I'm talking about a specific - well, yeah, you can call them Zionists. I think at a higher level it is a very secretive sect of people who are pretending they are Gods. RENSE: What happened to Stanley Kubrick? I don't mean the precise cause of death, but where was he going that got him into trouble with these people? FULFORD: It was the movie Eyes Wide Shut, exposing the Masonic orgies. They showed that there were people being killed. This is probably based on real events. I haven't done the proper research, but there is an old man who dies in Eyes Wide Shut. If I'm not mistaken, the man in the movie died exactly the way Stanley Kubrick died in real life, just as he finished the movie. RENSE: It is also suggested that Kubrick was involved in creating the - at least some hoaxed Apollo moon footage, and knew all about that. His wife has intimated as much since his death. FULFORD: In 1938, on April Fool's Day, they had the War of the Worlds on radio, with Orson Welles. All sorts of people believed it. So, they said "Ha! This is a tool we can use. People will believe anything if it's on the media." RENSE: Well, I think the media, then, with the work of Edward L. Bernays, began its ascendancy. It has become the most powerful tool of human oppression, social engineering, programming and mind control that has ever been on the planet. FULFORD: One of the most important instances of mind control is association. What they do, for example, with this holocaust stuff, is they show you something so horrible that everybody is disgusted. Killing innocent women and children in gas chambers, turning people into soap, it's just so awful that you hate it. Anyone would. RENSE: Of course, the soap issue has been completely discounted, by the way. FULFORD: That's not the point. The point is they fill you with this horrible story. Then they associate everything they don't want you to think about with that. So before I woke up to what was happening to me - if somebody tells me about a secret cartel of financiers who control the world's central banks, I would have instantly said, "Oh, yeah, that's that 25 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

anti-Semitic thing. Oh, you're a Neo-Nazi. You want to kill people. Oh my God, you're horrible. I can't talk to you." And then the conversation shuts down. That's how they do it! That's the kind of mind-wash or brain control [they use] through association. RENSE: The Illuminati controllers have been bleeding the world's populace for a long time. They are real good at it. What is it about your message that you think their ego will back down enough to take seriously? You laid the numbers out there. Is it going to take some kind of an example? FULFORD: I hope not. I really do. Even if you lose one assassin, this guy has got a family. He's got people who love him. He's going to be a suicide mission for sure. We'd rather not have to do that. And then his family has to be supportive. It's not a nice thing to kill people. RENSE: No, it isn't. FULFORD: It's really a last resort. RENSE: There are, of course, an awful lot of people around the world listening right now who will continue to read Henry Makow, Ph.D.'s story about Ben Fulford. And they are probably cheering for this, or certainly entertaining this concept, this program, with a great deal of guarded optimism, shall we say. It would be nice to see that the status quo, which is quite clearly hell-bent on creating an Armageddon, could be stopped somehow. Okay, Ben. A lot of things to touch on. You want to do any follow up on anything in particular? FULFORD: One thing, getting back to G.T. The 20th century was supposed to be a century of wonder. Unlimited free electricity. RENSE: Tesla, of course, was the man who had that, and offered it to us, but it was not allowed to be accepted. FULFORD: That's right. That's part of why they killed my great grandfather - he was going to finance Tesla. So they turned it into a century of horror. They need war and they need fear to control people. If things get too peaceful, then they cannot keep things under control. What has happened - and this is important, this is the big rift, the [Rothschild] Global Warming / [Rockefeller] War on Terror thing. The radical faction, who wants to go ahead with Armageddon, are the War on Terror people. They're all a lie, basically. Another faction [is saying], "Okay, look. The plan to create a world government, with Jerusalem as its capital, is just not going to work right now. It's much easier to make the EU a central world government." The thing you must understand about communism, the EU and even capitalism, as it is now practiced in the United States - they are all forms of disguising true central control. In other words, it's all different forms of Babylonian tyranny. 26 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

We can see through that to the essence. And the essence is to look at where the money is coming from. Finance. I was a financial journalist for 20 years, and it took me a long time to figure out that finance is just propaganda. What finance really means is the human process of deciding what to do in the future. It's the idea of "How do we navigate into the future?" And that has been stolen from us by these people. That's why they need to control the central banks. RENSE: Well, they want us to feel helpless, of course. FULFORD: People work for money, and they control the money. That's how they control the society. People who say the wrong things get fired, or killed, or marginalized. Or, invited in. That's how they control. It's through money. If Jesus Christ were alive today - when Jesus was alive, he went to the temple and he overturned the money changers' temple. If he were alive today he'd go to the Fed and he'd unplug the mainframe. That's what he would do. RENSE: Unplug the mainframe. Liberate the planet. FULFORD: Absolutely. They say, "All right, enough of this, we're going to figure out a new way." RENSE: Well, if something doesn't happen soon, we're all going to hell in a handbasket. It looks pretty grim, as you well know. FULFORD: The United States is in a particularly grim situation, but fortunately the rest of the world is much freer, and we're going to help the United States. RENSE: I've heard that. We are the black hole of the planet in some respects, I guess. FULFORD: Think about it. The endgame. These people are desperate. Cheney, Bush, they have 18 months left. The whole country has turned against them. Even the puppets in Congress. People are onto the fact that they were put in there by people with money, not by people with votes. RENSE: They completely turned into something else when they showed up in Washington DC. Their constituents no longer matter. The betrayal factor here is off the scale! It's unbelievable. The treasonous behavior of Congress, the traitorous actions of those at the highest levels of government is almost unimaginable. FULFORD: We have to remember - these people are scared. They are being threatened with murder at the highest levels - people like Edward Kennedy. These people, they killed General Patton, they killed the Kennedys, they killed Martin Luther King. They murder. Most decent people who want to go into politics think about making people's lives better. They don't know how to deal with a gang of murderers - especially a very old, sophisticated group of gangsters. RENSE: That's a very good point. It's gangsters. That's what's running the show. You're right. FULFORD: And that's why you need gangsters to fight gangsters. This is where these Asian people come in. They know how to do a gang war. The first phase, which is what I have initiated right now, is 27 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

the shouting match. We say, "Look. You'd better listen." And if they don't listen, then we go to the next phase. RENSE: What's the timetable on this, Ben? FULFORD: I cannot discuss that. You can't let people know what you're going to do. But I will tell you something interesting. There is a force of three thousand ninja assassins. Now these ninjas are a two thousand year old cult a school of martial arts. One of their specialties is sneaking into fortified compounds and murdering important people. The thing about these ninjas is they are white people - they are not Asians - and they are working for the US Special Forces. They were trained by the Japanese. They understand the true state of power in the US, and they are willing to act when the time comes. So I hope you're listening out there, Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rockefeller. We have someone close to each of you. You can be turned into dead meat in a matter of hours. I am not bluffing. And I am hoping it doesn't come to that. I am a decent human being. I am a journalist. I do not want any death. Not one. But if it comes to it, they will all be slaughtered. They will be hunted down like beasts. Every one of them will be killed. Until they agree to the terms I mentioned before. RENSE: How does the Chinese government interface with this, if at all? FULFORD: Well, they have people right up to the highest levels of the Chinese government in the society. They do have areas where their interests coincide, and one of them, of course, is stopping genocide. Right now, they are not fighting the Chinese government. They are therefore kind of semi-tolerated. Right now there is a state of an uneasy truce. But, as I said, they are separate. They have separate headquarters and a totally separate history. When it comes to stopping genocide, they are in total agreement. I am sure that the Chinese government's resources could be made available to us, if it came to that. RENSE: Given that your organization - that to which you purport to represent - is threatening, apparently, people with death, could that not be construed by the Department of Homeland Security not that I expect to hear your knees knocking with fear - as some sort of terrorism being issued over this program? FULFORD: It's not terrorism. It's saying, "If you don't stop killing people, if you don't stop killing us, we will have to defend ourselves." It's not terrorism to defend yourself. It's self-defense. They are doing the killing. They are the ones out there murdering people and carrying on genocide. They are the ones who are planning this incredible mass slaughter, not us. 28 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

So if there are any terrorists, you know who they are. It's the Illuminati. They are the real terrorists. Everybody knows that by now. We are trying to stop terrorism. Our point is, we don't want to kill a single person. Nobody. Not one. RENSE: And you have, apparently, presented a method by which that can be achieved - without anyone dying. FULFORD: Think about the one-dollar bill. You have the eye on the pyramid. The eye represents the people who kept the human race in the job of pyramid building, right? What you have to do - this is very important - it is very, very centralized, this thing. Target the eye. Forget about their flunkies. Forget about their employees, their servants. They just have no choice. They are innocent. Even the people on the Council of Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergers - most of them are decent people who would really not like to be part of this, but they had no choice. So the trick is to go right to the very, very top. RENSE: Dr. John Coleman (ph), in his book, "Conspirators: Hierarchy of the Committee of 300," did name names for the first time years ago. The book is in its fourth or fifth edition now. And it was quite centralized. Now did you turn over a list of people to this secret society at one point? FULFORD: Oh yeah. There are a lot of these lists in Japan, but basically it's all the descendants of the original banking families who put together the Fed. It's all the male descendants, okay? They won't kill females. The expanded - the other Illuminati families, you know the names. The Warburgs, the Morgans, Schiffs, et cetera - everybody knows the names. The Bilderbergers, the Council of Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, Scroll and Key, all these people [have top Illuminati members in their groups]. The point is that what they do - the trick is to start at the very highest level and work your way down. They don't want to kill anybody, if possible. Let's keep it to the minimum, if possible. But, if necessary, if it's the only way to stop the killing of hundreds and hundreds of millions of people, which is what they're trying to do... RENSE: Billions. FULFORD: Billions! Yeah, they are trying to kill billions of people. This is not a joke. This is reality! ...Then you have to stop them! You have no other choice. It is self-defense. It is not terrorism. RENSE: In Japan, have you made this public yet, Benjamin, or are you doing it here for the first time? FULFORD: Yes. It has been made public in Japan. They know about it. It is in my latest book. It came out about a month ago. There is a lot of stuff going on here. I have been in contact with the Japanese secret government. They are cooperating with me.

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I repeat. Their point is that they like the US society, they like Americans, they like the United States. They don't want to pick a fight with America. If there is some way of freeing them from the Rockefellers and these Illuminati, they would love that to happen. That is where they are coming from. So they are cooperating, to a certain extent. The negotiations are ongoing as to how to do this. But the plan I have given them, and I have presented on your website, is we make contact with Russia, China, India - countries that are not controlled by Illuminati pawns - Latin American countries everybody in the world, basically - we all get together and we say, "Enough is enough." And just like that. It's like pulling down the Iron Curtain, or pulling away the curtain that is hiding the Wizard of Oz. RENSE: Knocking down the Berlin Wall. FULFORD: Yeah. All it takes is for the people to say, "Wait a minute! Enough is enough." Expose these people, show them to the world. Let people know who they are and what they are doing. They will be stopped. RENSE: Right. FULFORD: The other thing is the lower-down people. For example, the people who support a world government based in the EU, they think it's about human rights and justice and law. RENSE: About ten seconds to the break. Real quick. FULFORD: They are all chumps. The people who support them. Many of them. They don't know what's going on. RENSE: Okay. Stand by, Ben. We'll take a break and come back. Hour number three coming up in just a few minutes. RENSE: Okay, we're back with Benjamin Fulford, former Asia-Pacific bureau chief with Forbes magazine for nearly eight years. A Chinese secret society has issued, through Mr. Fulford, a life-or-death ultimatum for the Illuminati to stop the genocide, back off and change course - about 180 degrees. The Chinese also feel, according to Mr. Fulford, that SARS was, in fact, a biological weapon deployed to attempt to reduce the Chinese population by an extraordinary number of people. It didn't work for a variety of reasons, but it was clearly and specifically able to affect and infect those of Asian descent. Again, look at the numbers of people in Canada who died of SARS. You can probably do a Google search on pictures of those people and see. It's about 95 percent Asian. Okay. Our conversation has covered some extraordinary information so far. We have about another hour to go. There are many places to go, but Ben I hear you wanting to say something, so go right ahead.

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FULFORD: Sure. I just want to make a point. You know William Shatner, the guy who played Captain Kirk on the Starship Enterprise? He was a Canadian. And as a Canadian, I would be proud to serve on a US ship like Enterprise. You know, "Flying where no man has gone before?" The Kennedy America. That's what the world wants to see again. That's what everybody is wishing for. So when I see Americans captured by robber barons, and subjected to Freudian / Pavlovian mind control... RENSE: No better example than September 11th. FULFORD: Yes. I have to fight to the death to help free my American brothers and sisters, if it comes to that. Everybody wants America to be free from these people, including the Americans. When you really come down to it, it is a small number. All you have to do is expose them. That's the key. People have to know who they are and what they're up to. That's it. It could be like the Velvet Revolution - a bloodless end to this. That's what I'm offering them. And that's what the American people should quickly realize. They can do it. They don't have to worry about fighting black helicopters or policemen or anything like that. These people are just as much victims as everybody else. RENSE: Now the black helicopters notwithstanding, the American public is not going to have to become directly involved in this if what you're saying is on the table now. The gauntlet is down, the challenge has been made. Americans need to... FULFORD: That's it. We'll try peaceful methods. So the plan I gave to the Japanese government is, we get the Russians, the Chinese, the Indians, everybody on Earth, basically, to say "Enough is enough." It should just be a matter of announcing the fact that we will not buy any more US government bonds until the US government decides to change course. RENSE: Could the Chinese effectively decimate the American economy at this point with the holdings they have, and the control they do have, over American economic and business interests? FULFORD: Of course. There are ten times more dollars circulating around the world than the US economy is worth. If people said, "Okay, we don't believe this dollar thing anymore", or better still, if they stopped using oil and started burning water, and other fuels, that would end it. The thing is, I personally believe the US is depending on the armed forces to be the greatest force for good in the history of humankind. It's not who they are, it's the organization. It's the job they've been given. They should be out there stopping poverty and environmental destruction rather than stealing oil for robber barons. RENSE: Speaking of robber barons, when Dov Zakheim (ph) was in charge of the Pentagon budget, some three TRILLION dollars vanished. No one has been able to track that yet. No one is even trying! FULFORD: There is a huge underground secret budget which they are using for this Armageddon plan. People need to find out about this. 31 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

They are going to try to put on quite a show, and really try to fool everybody, thinking these are end times. That's where I believe that money went to - some kind of huge smoke-and-mirrors show, on a global scale. It will make 9/11 look like child's play. RENSE: That's what most people are expecting who are watching this carefully. Something that big will have to happen to scare the wits out of what is left of American independence into utter subservience and domination. And it probably would work. Given the fact that the electronic media is so overwhelmingly oppressive in its own right, and clever, and domineering... FULFORD: Remember, there are six people who control these media. RENSE: Six corporations, that's right. FULFORD: Yeah, but it's six people, really, when you come down to it. Actually I'd like to take this time now to direct a message to Rupert Murdoch and Lord Thompson of Fleet (ph). I strongly suggest to them that they confirm, through their own sources, that I am not bluffing - that this society is real. Mr. Murdoch can call anyone senior in the Taiwanese government, for example, or Mr. Thompson could ask personal columnists in the Tokyo bureau, and they can provide him with the proof. They know that they would have to either stop applying propaganda to the American people, or find a deep hole and hide in it. They will realize this is not a bluff. These people are real. Mr. Murdoch has good Chinese connections. They will realize that the attire has changed. They will start providing people with the truth. Mr. Murdoch, I think he will do whatever the powers-that-be want. He doesn't have any personal agenda. If he realizes he will be protected, I think he is willing to turn. RENSE: It's hard to believe Fox News telling us the truth, but yeah, okay. FULFORD: He says it's his business. He was here in Tokyo a while ago. He said, "Yeah, look. I saw a Mossad marketplace. I saw Nice, I saw the De Merde (ph), and so I went for it. I don't think he believes anything Fox News says personally - it's just business for him. He does something similar for the Chinese - what appeals to Chinese phobia. It's just business for him. RENSE: You wrote a book about September 11th in Japan. How did it sell? Pretty well? FULFORD: Yeah. 80,000 copies. RENSE: That's a best-seller six times over back in the States. FULFORD: It was very influential. There was a big 9/11 conference here, and I've had a couple of TV shows about 9/11 here on network TV, of all things. The Japanese are much quicker to catch on to stuff like this than the Americans. They have been subjected to a different type of brain control than the Americans. 32 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

What happened after World War II for the Japanese is they were subjected to this 'fallen' kind of mind control. First of all, they were given an inferiority complex towards white people. They were made passive. They were made so they didn't have opinion. They work hard, and think that America is a wonderful, wonderful country. Any time anyone got too smart... the other thing is they made sure there would be no geniuses. This is how they keep Japan under control. Then when people do get smart, they either co-opt them or they kill them. RENSE: You're talking about the Rockefellers. FULFORD: Yeah. They've had to kill at least four Prime Ministers in the post-war era. RENSE: In Henry Makow's article that was one of the most interesting claims. Four dead, and over 200, I guess, major Japanese figures. FULFORD: I've interviewed seven Japanese prime ministers. Captains of industry, members of security police, senior gangsters. I have very good sources. I have everything on tape. I have enough evidence to convict David Rockefeller of at least three murders related to the recent takeover of the Japanese banking system. This is how I got into this. This is why I got so deep inside. I followed the trail, all the way up until I actually hit the finance minister. That's when suddenly I was given this gold badge, which is the analog version of the gold chip I guess they're planning to put in there - you know, in their elite servants. What they've done to the Japanese people is truly horrible. Everyone thinks it was a wonderful thing. The Japanese people love the American people. They do. But at the same time, they hate the Rockefellers, and they think of them as these horrible dictators who are tyrants to both the Americans and the Japanese. RENSE: The other losers of World War II, the German people, have paid a terrible price as well, of course. FULFORD: Well yeah. I learned that from your website. They killed all those people after the war! RENSE: Yeah. Millions. FULFORD: What they did to Germany was absolutely horrible too. They like to talk about the holocaust. Right now there are 48 million people dying of starvation every year. So many more times the holocaust, happening right now! They're not doing anything about it! RENSE: No, it doesn't even make the papers over here. FULFORD: The Pentagon, like I said before, can be the greatest force for good in human history. All you have to do is give them the job of saving the planet.

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The amount of money... how I got into this whole thread in the first place is I realized the Japanese could end poverty and stop all environmental destruction, and have change left over, if they just used their surplus to heal the planet. When I asked them why they didn't, I ended up finding out it was because they were a slave people, and they would be murdered if they tried to spend their own money that way. I do believe the people in the Pentagon would love to go and save the planet. They would be much happier with that job than killing people for robber barons. I'm asking people now. I'm calling for people, loyal Americans, the CIA, the NSA, people in the Pentagon: take your country back. Realize that the democracy is in danger, and your oath is to the Constitution, not to the dictators. Not to the bankers. RENSE: Well, that's a key expression which I made mention of many times, as did thousands of other Americans on this Fourth of July just passed - that we should all read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights again. Especially the people we voted for and sent to Washington to represent our country and our local areas. Back in a few minutes with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. RENSE: Okay. Talking with Benjamin Fulford. September 11th. We know quite a lot about it over here. There is a lot of disinformation, as you know, on the Internet. Government agents, agents provocateurs, trying to muddy the waters - but we've got a pretty good handle on the thing. How did it look to you over there, and what are your thoughts about who was behind it - directly, or indirectly, or both? FULFORD: I think this was something they had planned for a long time. RENSE: An Illuminati operation, in other words. FULFORD: Yes. An Illuminati operation. The thing that really stops most people, who still don't know what 9/11 is... they say "Wait a minute! This happened to me too. How come the New York Times doesn't write about it? Why isn't it on the TV?" RENSE: Somehow, Americans have got to be shaken out of that stupor and understand that those media are controlled by, as you say, essentially six people. And that's the real problem here. Opposition of the government to the killers, to the gangsters, has no platform. They are shut out of the mainstream media. They have got the Internet, which of course is rampant with all kinds of operators and people who are out to do nothing other than slander, libel, cause fights and issue false data. So it's a tough one for people to get through. Without the Internet, it would probably be over by now. FULFORD: It is the Internet and websites like yours that help people like me figure out what is going on. RENSE: Well, thank you.

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FULFORD: What happened to me was I got exposed to the corruption in Japan. I started as a financial journalist, and I realized that all the bad debt was controlled by gangsters, which really didn't make sense. Hundreds of billions of dollars, controlled by gangsters? So I went and I started talking to the gangsters - the Japanese gangsters. And they told me they were middle men. They take a 30 percent commission. I said, "How are the billions of dollars disappearing somewhere? " I followed the thread and realized the Japanese government was totally corrupt. Everything we were reading about in the Japanese newspapers was a lie. I wrote two chapters of a book that was going to be so explosive, and it was in English - that I would have to either leave Japan or be killed. I sent them to my agent. The next day I get a call from the granddaughter of the Meiji emperor. Out of the blue! She said, "You know, you should not get the Yakuza angry." Right? And she told me that a goddess had called to intervene, and to tell me [this]. It turned out that the 'goddess' was the Japanese security police. They obviously had been looking at my email. But they said, "You don't understand what's really going on." She gave me this Dave vonKleist (ph) video, In Plane Site. As soon as she gave me that, I said, "Oh, no, no, no. This is anti-Semitic nonsense. I'm not going to watch this. How can this lady, she is a princess - how can she believe stuff like this?" She kept bugging me, so I watched it. I've been an investigative journalist for twenty years. I know the difference between true information and BS. So I started a long term of research. Once I was sure this was a government plot, my next thought was, "Oh my God, how could it be so big? This is too huge to comprehend. The amount of people that would have to be involved is vast!" Then the truth is so big, and so horrendous, that people just hide from it. I basically think you have to go all the way back, as I said, to Hammurabi - the original Babylonian dictator. The cult of leadership. The Freemasons, their history goes right back there. It's a collective of slave drivers. These are the people who literally did have people make pyramids. And they controlled them by controlling their food supply. And now they control them by controlling their money supply. Their history is so long, and their techniques are so sophisticated. Folklore has been aware of these people. They have called them different names over the years. Beelzebub. Mammon. Set. Lucifer. Satan. But there is nothing otherworldly or metaphysical about them. This is a real group of people. An ancient sect of Babylonian slave drivers. And that's the hard truth. They want to enslave the entire planet. That's what they're trying to do - and we must stop them. People have to know. This is how deep you have to go in history. I believe Jesus Christ was a rebel against these people. He was one of their enemies, because he said all men are created equal, and free before God, and you should love thy neighbor. Stuff like that. And take care of the poor. RENSE: Other great beings have issued the same message, of course, in history. 35 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

FULFORD: Absolutely. Mohammed, I think, kicked them out of a huge [area] - the Islamic world, basically. Czarist Russia fought them for a very long time, and now they are free again. There are a lot of free countries. Italy should come out with the pizza (ph) P2 scandal. That's a great scandal to look at to see what's going on. RENSE: People over in the States don't know anything about that. That was a monumental development, a monumental watershed in Italian history. Hammurabi, Abraham, a secret Jewish sect, a Zionist sect becoming an Illuminati sect. What about that? How do we... you're going all the way back, so... FULFORD: You have to follow the thread. If you think about what Moses did, this is my understanding of it. They dumped a lot of poisonous red mineral into the Nile River. And that poisoned the crops. That's why you have the story of the Nile running red. It was a slave revolt. He was... it was a fight between two different slave drivers. He was using ecoterrorism. He slaughtered lots of Egyptians and eventually lost. They fled into what is now Israel. They were then kicked out by the Romans and scattered all over the place. RENSE: Is this the same group, Ben, that has been kicked out by virtually every developed society on record? FULFORD: Yes. The Jews have been enslaved by them, but it's not a Jewish thing, really. It's more secret than that. They are hidden even from the Jews. RENSE: When you study World War II, and the involvement of Zionism with the holocaust, we see it quite clearly. Stand by just for a minute or two. We have to take a break. We will come right back with Mr. Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. RENSE: Okay. Let's get right back to Mr. Ben Fulford, talking about some pretty amazing things. His great grandfather, a benefactor of Nikola Tesla, was murdered for his efforts. Tesla, it is said by some, was kept basically in the last several decades of his life, almost a prisoner, in a way. All of his work was watched. It was a pretty unfortunate way to end a brilliant life like that, for one of the great men in history. FULFORD: Yes. The 20th century was a total tragedy. It should have been... humanity was on the verge of something like a Cambrian explosion. When you have unlimited free energy, the possibilities are so mind-boggling that you can't even fully understand. It would be just wonderful. It would be like everyone is a billionaire! RENSE: Well, the potential is there, you're right, to create the beginning, and in fact establish a Golden Age for humanity in the last century. But instead, how many millions, a hundred million died in wars? At least. FULFORD: At least 100 million. The Americans killed I don't know how many tens of millions after the war. And more importantly, they suppressed technology.

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RENSE: Oh, there is so much there. We have had videos recently, Ben, of one man. He's done a television station. He was able to pull hydrogen right out of salt water and burn it right on the spot. The energy is all there. FULFORD: Yes. The Japanese had that technology 30 years ago! RENSE: Right. FULFORD: Another technology they have, that is being suppressed, is you can generate unlimited energy by taking advantage of the difference in temperature between the surface of the ocean and the bottom. RENSE: That's called geothermal exchange. Right. FULFORD: Yes. You pump methane down to the bottom of the ocean. It turns into liquid. Then it comes up and it turns into gas again, and you get infinite electricity. And rivers run fresh water. RENSE: And the same thing on land with geothermal. But yeah, there are so many out there, and they are clearly all being mothballed and locked away. They have no plans for us other than slavery. That's their plan! FULFORD: If you talk to that guy who burned water in Florida, just see what's happened to him since. I think he's had some pretty troubling visitors. RENSE: They almost all seemingly do. Some have died unusually early deaths as well. Others just vanish and you hope they have not been killed. There are so many stories I have seen like this over the years. They were pulling electricity out of the ground in the 1870s and 80s, for goodness sakes. I mean, it's there. FULFORD: Yeah. It's a crime. They are trying to lobotomize the human race and stop human progress. RENSE: They're doing a pretty good job of it. So far the Chinese, by the way, had, as you know - I don't know if you remember the year. I think it was about 2001. They had a goal of putting a television set in every household in China - because that is the instrument of oppression, of manipulation, of control, of conditioning, of shaping, of molding. FULFORD: Sure. But you know what? The Chinese have their own idea for democracy. You cannot totally write it off. What they are saying is the democracy using paper every four years is kind of lowtech and out of date. You can have real-time, live democracy on the Internet, through opinion polls and chat rooms. That's a much better way of making sure public opinion is reflected in public policy. RENSE: Well, that's electronic. It's all something that can be manipulated if it is electronic. But, you raise a good point. And if it were somehow guaranteed to be legitimate, it would be fascinating. Let me ask you a question. What do you and your backers think of Vladimir Putin and Russia standing tall against the Rothschilds over the issue of the missiles in Europe and other East-West problems?

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They have refused now to extradite the Russian businessman who the British - and Berezovsky, the Rothschilds - say was the murderer of Litivinenko with Polonium 210. They want to extradite the man. So there are really some very, very big power dynamics at work with respect to Russia, their new technology, and Vladimir Putin, who is stepping down next year, although many Russians would prefer he stay, I would suggest. But what do you think of it? FULFORD: I think what he's done is great. He kicked out Berezovsky. By the way, my friend and the former Forbes Moscow bureau chief was shot ten times in Russia, taken to the hospital and died in the elevator. The elevator stopped, and it was stuck for eight minutes. That's where he died - and he was investigating Berezovsky before he died. We don't know if Berezovsky did it, but I suspect him. These were all Rockefeller / Rothschild proxies. Berezovsky, Khorokovsky (ph), and Eslin (ph). By kicking them out, he freed Russia. This is a huge accomplishment. There was a Japanese politician by the name of Koki Ishii, who married a Russian woman and was in close with the Russian government. He was stabbed through the heart with a sword in front of his house. But before he died, he was given a manuscript by Putin's former boss in the KGB. He wanted it translated into Japanese, to let people know what happened in Russia - how they freed [their country] from these Illuminati. Although the book hasn't been translated into Japanese yet, his daughter Tanya conveyed the gist of it to me. So I know that Putin is not an Illuminati agent. We will be making contact with Putin later, and maybe he will hear through this that we have a secret, six million man army that is willing to align with him to put an end to this madness. RENSE: Well, quite clearly the Rothschilds and the Illuminati view Russia as the prize that got away, and they want it back. I think the ejection of the oligarchs that you've touched on, that I've touched on and described in great detail with guests on this program for a long time now - is one of the most important geo-political, socio-cultural, national issues of our time. I mean, this is a monumental change, what happened in Russia! FULFORD: Yeah. They have been free for the first time since 1917! RENSE: And they remember who enslaved them, and who ground the life out of them for nearly the better part of a century. And they don't like those people at all. FULFORD: Yeah. And we're going to ally with them. The other thing is I believe the Japanese are also about to kick them out. And that will be it. It will be the end for these people. I believe we are at the endgame. RENSE: That goes hand in hand with what you're saying about "they're desperate."

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FULFORD: Yes. If these people end, I think literally it would be such a big change that it would be worth calling it the New Age. It really would, because humanity would suddenly have so much potential freed. These people, they are trying to lobotomize and suppress technology; they distort academics and science. They fund all the academics to publish their propaganda, and ostracize those who don't. When we start reading New Scientist magazine, which is an orthodox science magazine, about congressmen getting involved in trying to stop someone who is researching desktop fusion, you realize something is very wrong. It's like Galileo being called up in front of the Inquisition. What these people are doing is not only criminal, it's stupid! They could be so much richer than they are now, and so much more powerful, just by releasing all human potential. RENSE: What they're doing is essentially killing the goose that is laying the golden eggs for them. Your point is well taken. Stand by, Ben, we'll take a break, and come right back in just a few minutes. RENSE: Okay. We're back. Ben, anybody who studies the larger issues of "pulling the big scam" comes up with one of the most prominent potential scenarios being the ET card, or the extraterrestrial invasion trump card. The fake ET invasion, with some advanced technology. What do you know about... and anyone, I should hasten to add, who has studied the issue of ET visitation honestly and objectively will come away with the conclusion that it is quite obvious we are being visited routinely and regularly by any number of different intelligent beings, races, species. What is your take on it over there? FULFORD: There is a guy who did the research years ago who said the Universe is 14 billion years old, and it should have been filled up with aliens long ago. I am assuming, if I were an ET and I saw the planet Earth, I would quarantine it. RENSE: [Laughs] Or bring tourists here for a laugh, yeah. FULFORD: But yeah, it's too dangerous. Also, it's a precious little ecosystem, and they don't want to interfere. They want to let it evolve according to its own wishes, but they would love humanity to free themselves. Now the Japanese Freemasons, who invited me to join, said there was a planned rival of a fleet of UFOs. It sounded, to me, crazy - the Rockefellers, you know, were going to secretly manufacture this fleet of UFOs to fake an Armageddon and alien landing scenario. So I would assume, if there are aliens out there watching us, they feel sorry for us. They are hoping, cheering for us, hoping we can get rid of these bastards. And then they will think that maybe the Earth is safe enough that they can end the quarantine. That would be my take on it. But I am not an expert in this field. RENSE: I understand. It is a potential manipulating device that has been talked about for years. FULFORD: I interviewed [Admiral] Bobby Inman, former head of the NSA. I asked him about the Rockefellers and the secret societies. Right away, he said, "Are you a UFO guy?" 39 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: That was one of the first things he said to you? FULFORD: Yeah! I wasn't asking him about that. I was asking him about the Rockefellers, the secret societies and the NSA, and their relationship - and he says, "Are you a UFO guy?" So I think what they try to do is they try to put some really wacky ideas [out there] and pack them all together with the real stuff, to make people not believe it. So this stuff about reptilian people that David Icke is pushing, I think that's disinformation made to turn most people off from this whole idea that there is a vast conspiracy. So I try to stay away from that, and stick to the planet Earth and what I can see right in front of me. When the aliens come, if they come, then it will be known to everybody. RENSE: It is also known that the Chinese have an extraordinary number of people who are actively investigating this particular issue. I think one organization has over 50 thousand members. So they take it very seriously over there. FULFORD: Here in Japan too. There are a lot of our people who - there is a place near Mount Fuji where they go to watch UFOs. They can see a lot of them. There are a lot of weird movies. I think there is a military secret testing ground there too, where they can see some of these. Remember, they also use the UFO story to hide... RENSE: All kinds of technology. It's a perfect screen. FULFORD: Sure. The Stealth planes they were flying for 20 years before they announced them to the public. Who knows what they have got? So you have to be very careful with this stuff. I try to make sure that I talk in a way within the parameters of people in the mainstream... RENSE: You have to. If you're going to be a smart and effective journalist, you have to. What else did Inman say? He, of course, of the SAIC fame. That's CIA's backwards, with an S. That's the corporation he was in. FULFORD: Interesting. He said a lot of stuff. He was a member of the Trilateral Commission. This comes up in a lot of these conspiracy theories. I've talked to members of the Trilateral Commission. What happened was that Bilderberg was racist. So the Rockefellers said "We need something where we can talk to the Japanese in secret too." The Bilderbergers didn't want them in their club, which was a white man's club. So they set up this other one. But the Japanese who were members tell me they wouldn't even listen to their advice anyway. So it is kind of dysfunctional, the Trilateral Commission. Inman himself, he told me, "I was a member, but it was pointless. It was powerless, so I quit." RENSE: Really! FULFORD: Yeah. But he said, "I am also a member of the Bohemian Grove. Yeah, I go there every year and I give them my big spiel. We go there to have fun. What's the harm?" That's the story he's giving me. Of course he won't tell me what he said in his spiel, you know. 40 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

RENSE: Or talk about the owl, or the Cremation of Care, or any of the other rituals. FULFORD: He revealed their whole scenario of bioterrorism and starvation... RENSE: What did he say about bioterrorism? Did he say it was a viable thing and they were worried about it, or was he... FULFORD: It was something they were worried about in the future, together with starvation, you know? RENSE: Hell, they could starve people right now if they want to! FULFORD: Well, Africa's got this new wheat blight that is destroying all their... RENSE: Ah, listen. Monsanto and it's terminator seeds will make the world its instant prisoner. Instant. And they're pushing it through now. You have to buy the Monsanto seed every year, because your crops can no longer seed themselves. Pretty clever control. Then you've got genetic modification of crops, which we know now is catastrophic for the health of laboratory rats and, in all likelihood, people. The evidence continues to pile up about that. The Western diet is a fatal diet, over time, for anybody who engages in it, or virtually anyone. We know about all these things. What about chemtrails and the spraying of the sky? We have not seen any photographs ever of chemtrails from China, from Russia or from India. FULFORD: There's none in Japan either. They won't let 'em. RENSE: All right. You know about that. So you know about that, and you just said the Japanese won't allow it. FULFORD: That's right. RENSE: Okay. FULFORD: They don't have that problem out here. But they do have a lot of hormones pumped into their food supply, making men impotent. RENSE: There are so many phyto-estrogens in processed food now, processed soy and all kinds of foods that are causing all kinds of problems in humans, and certainly in the amphibian world as we know. FULFORD: You heard the story about Orientals having a small what-cha-ma-call it. They put something in the makeup that women wore here which leads the children to be born - the males - with small genitalia. RENSE: Really? FULFORD: They've been actually trying to emasculate these people, filling their systems with female hormones.

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RENSE: It's said that they won't need the act of sex to procreate in the near future anyhow. They'll just grow it in a laboratory, whatever they want. If there's anyone around at that point anyhow. So without your people being able to pull off their ultimatum - I'm not saying they can or can't, I'm saying without that happening, it would seem that the planet is in store for a hell of a population reduction, continued environmental rape, pillage, plunder and looting, and a potential complete collapse of the Earth's ecosystems. FULFORD: Yes. That's what these people are doing. And they think they are environmentalists. The way they want to preserve the environment is by getting rid of excess people and creating wilderness zones. RENSE: That's what Prince Philip said. If he could come back and reincarnate as something, you know the story. [He would be a lethal virus.] FULFORD: You know, these people are very high [ranking]. I'll send you later, I have a flowchart of the Illuminati power structure. Just to get back to that whole thing of the people, once they were spread around by the Romans, the secret society, they had useless skills. Emperors loved to build monuments, and these people were monument builders. And they were good at accounting, controlling the finances. So wherever they went, they made themselves favored with kings. So their influence is everywhere. They had their secret society. And again, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is a secret satanic society, whose members are atheists. RENSE: Arch-atheists. FULFORD: They got control of some people in central Asia called the Khazars. RENSE: Oh yeah. I know they adopted Judaism in the ninth century. I know the story. FULFORD: They were attacked by the Mongols and the Russians, and their elite. Part of them flooded into Europe... RENSE: China, and the rest went into Europe. They split, pretty much. FULFORD: Right. And the ones who went into Europe eventually intermarried with the royal families. They got their big break when they started financing all the royal families against Napoleon. They since intermarried with all the older aristocracy, and have this group of interbred families. And that's the Illuminati. Their number one man is David Rockefeller. Number two and three are Philip Rothschild and Jay Rockefeller. Just remember those three names at the very least. Don't forget David, Lord Carollton (ph) in England. We all know who they are. That's the thing about them. RENSE: We have just two minutes. What is the role of the Catholic Church in all of this, if any?

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FULFORD: I believe the Catholic Church has been fighting them. I went to a Jesuit university. These guys wear second-hand clothing and live in shaggy apartments. The Freemasons I've met all have huge fortunes, and look like pigs. That tells me a lot. I think the Catholic Church has been fighting them, and I think they'll be an important ally with Russia. RENSE: Well, I don't know. It's interesting to see them talking about Tony Blair's formal conversion to Catholicism, and [how] the Pope is going to name him to be the Papal envoy for peace in Jerusalem. If there's any truth to that story, which was all widely circulated, that's getting pretty weird. FULFORD: The Roman Catholic Church is a huge organization with many factions. I'm sure they are heavily infiltrated. RENSE: Mm hm. FULFORD: But I do not believe the entire institution is corrupted. But I don't know. I'm not a Catholic. My parents are atheist, I am agnostic. [Actually] I'm not agnostic; I believe God is too big to fit into any particular religion. RENSE: Well, you bet. I'll second that. We're just about out of time, Ben. Anything you want to leave us with on this visit tonight? FULFORD: Yes. Just remember - these people are for real and just remember. Get the eye. That's the secret. Grab the eye and humanity will be free. That's the message. RENSE: All right. Thank you very much, Ben Fulford, for being here. I look forward to another conversation. If I can help you, let me know. FULFORD: Thanks. It has been a great honor. RENSE: Thank you sir. Good night. FULFORD: Bye.

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INTERVIEW WITH CHUCK MISSLER Charles "Chuck" Missler is an author, evangelical Christian, and Bible teacher, and former businessman and Air Force officer. He is the founder of the Koinonia House ministry based in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Chuck Missler, an honors graduate of the United States Naval Academy, earned his Master of Science in Engineering from UCLA. In 1999, Missler received a Ph.D. in biblical studies from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University in Shreveport, an institution founded by the late minister Jimmy G. Tharpe. Missler was born and reared in southern California. After graduating from the United States Naval Academy, he served in the United States Air Force completing flight training and became Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles. Following his military service, he moved into the private sector of business and technology, holding positions with several companies including TRW (a large aerospace firm), Ford Motor Company, and Automatic Data Processing. He has also served as a senior analyst with a non-profit think tank where he conducted projects for the intelligence community and the United States Department of Defense. During this time he completed a Master's degree at the University of California Los Angeles in engineering. He was for several years the chairman, the chief executive, and the largest shareholder of Western Digital. In 1983 he became the chairman and chief executive of Helionetics Inc., another technology company. After teaching for many years at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, Missler moved to Coeur d'Alene in 1992 and founded Koinonia House. Through this organization, Missler distributes a monthly newsletter, Bible study tapes, and a radio show, and speaks at conferences. One of the most informative discussions held with Missler in recent years was his interview on the Sid Roth show. Details of the interview are as follows. SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Are UFOs real, I mean, for sure? Does the Bible talk about them? Are UFOs involved in End Time Bible prophecy, End Time events? Could they be a little piece of a puzzle that we have missed? My guest, Chuck Missler, says yes. He’s a Naval Academy graduate and former Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles, CEO of six public companies. Four of the six were highly classified in the Department of Defense. Chuck Missler, you are such, in my opinion, and I’m entitled to say this, you are such a renown, wonderful Bible teacher. Are you a little meshuga? What are you talking about? UFOs, flying saucers. I don’t get it. CHUCK: Well first of all, I appreciate the intended encouragement, but I really came at this whole subject because of my love for the Bible. It happens that I come out an information science background. My whole career, 30 years in the strategic community, gives me perhaps a little different perspective than most people would have going at this topic. But I want to right up front indicate it was my biblical interest that brought me into this, rather than my high tech background, although that’s proven to be, that and my Department of Defense connections, have been very valuable to me. So that’s one of the reasons I find myself in this peculiar posture. 44 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

SID: But it’s really, in other words, he has a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge from the Intelligence community, which helps him put a lot together of what we’ll be talking about, but he’s saying it’s his love for the Bible that is really motivating him right now. So you found a controversial verse in Genesis 6, which has to do with a prophecy that Jesus said. CHUCK: I start with Jesus, and in Matthew 24, he gives four disciples an inside briefing on his second coming. And in that briefing, he makes a very strange remark. He says, “As the days of Noah were so shall the days of the coming of the Son of Man be.” Now many people presume he just meant that it was because of the business as usual. Anyway, the point is we need to understand what the days of Noah were like in order to understand what he was saying. So that takes us to Genesis 6, and when you jump into Genesis 6 you quickly discover that very few seminaries teach what that passage really says. And so as you get into that Genesis 6, you have to understand the first two verses are one sentence and it deals with this strange goings on between the fallen angels producing hybrids with humans. And that was so uncomfortable in the early years of the church that it was the understanding of the early rabbis. It was also the understanding of the early church that what it was dealing with was fallen angels cohabitating with human women producing a strange hybrid offspring. But when you get to about the fifth century that was a very uncomfortable posture. So they cooked up what they call the Lines of Seth argument, and that’s what taught in most seminaries. One of the things I discover is that many people who are products of most seminaries haven’t been taught that there are different perspectives of Genesis 6, and it’s the literal careful study version of Genesis 6 that starts to raise the fog on this whole issue. SID: Now tell me about the word “Nephilim.” What does that mean? CHUCK: In the Hebrew it comes from the word, “nephal.” It means “the fallen ones” and that’s the term used, don’t confuse that with the fallen angels. The fallen angels, according to Genesis 6, cohabitated with human women to produce a hybrid offspring that are called, in the Hebrew, “the Nephilim.” In the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, the translation of the Old Testament into Greek, they use the word, “gigantus” which is transliterated “giants”. And they did happen to be giants, but that’s not what the word means. The word actually means, in the Greek, “the Earth born.” And so, from the Greek point of view, they’re the Earth born. From the Hebrew point of view they’re the fallen ones. But either way they’re pointing to a hybrid, and it apparently was part of Satan’s plan to contaminate the Messianic line. SID: But so the purpose of the flood was to get rid of these. CHUCK: Exactly. You put your finger on it. That’s exactly the point. You study Verse 9 of Genesis 6, it speaks of Noah, that his genealogy was untainted, unblemished, and apparently it was a distinctive in that sense. He may not have been the only one unblemished, but the fact that he was unblemished qualified him for what God was going to do, among other things. But the point is the whole issue that God chose to do was to save eight people in the ark and erase the blackboard, so to speak. SID: Okay, but if the blackboard was erased then we don’t have to fool with them today, if they were all destroyed. 45 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

CHUCK: Except Genesis 6:4 says, “There were Nephilim in the land those days, and also after that.” We discover, many good Bible scholars miss this, that you really won’t understand subsequent events in the Old Testament by not realizing it happened again. When God, in Genesis 15 and Genesis 17, confirms the land covenant to Abraham he tells Abraham that he and his descendants are going to be away for 400 years. But after 400 years, they’re gonna return. That gave Satan, who is obviously listening, the realization that he had four centuries to lay down a mine field. And that’s why when Moses enters the land and he sends his, at KadeshBarnea, he sends in the 12 reconnoiters, if I can call them that, they come back in Numbers 13:3, it says, “There were Nephilim in the land.” So it happened again. SID: I’ll tell you what, hold that thought. Did you know that a dozen astronauts have reported UFOs? And Chuck, so many astronauts are reporting UFOs, but one was amazing. This one astronaut, John Blaha, a ham radio operator, actually picked up what he was saying. As a matter of fact, a picture is worth a thousand words. Let’s take a look at that now. FEMALE (Reporter from the London Broadcasting Company): The wording is as follows: “Houston, this is Discovery. We still have the alien spacecraft under surveillance.” JOHN BLAHA: “Uh Houston, ah, this is Discovery. We still have the alien spacecraft uh, under observance.” SID: I have a question for you. Why is there so much misinformation? Why are there so many coverups? I mean, when astronauts are reporting UFOs, what is the reason, in your opinion, for the misinformation, the cover-up? CHUCK: I would be conjecturing like most people. One of the great mysteries in this whole area is why the cover-ups by all the governments, but the most by the United States? Other countries are starting to release those information. But the United States, there is a deliberate attempt to hide this area. And that’s probably the biggest mystery isn’t this one. The biggest one is Roswell. Why does the Roswell incident, back in 1947, enjoy a higher level of classification than our most sensitive war heads? SID: You’re from the Intelligence community. You should tell me. It makes no sense. I agree. CHUCK: And it’s a mystery. I don’t have a conjecture as to why they’re doing it, but it’s clear two presidents and four congressmen have been unable to crack the security that surrounds the Roswell incident. Why? That’s over 60 years ago. And the mystery, obviously there’s all kinds of bizarre stories that have come out of that experience. But the real mystery to me isn’t that. The real mystery is why is it classified? Why does the government hide it? And I don’t have any conjectures. I think those conjectures are just as wild as the other conjectures. SID: Well according to your tapes, this cover-up is very unusual because some 30 newspapers reported it in ’47, and then just immediately after, what happened?

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CHUCK: Yeah. Blanchard, the colonel of the base, when the Roswell thing first happened, issued a press release that a saucer had landed and so forth. Within a few hours, 400 miles away at the Brigadier General in charge of the 8th Air Force, countermanded that press release and hatched this story about it was a weather balloon and so forth. That starts a whole series of the silliest, most inane cover-up stories. There’s been a sequence of them. First, there was a weather balloon. Well that didn’t fly. They went one after the other. And to the community, it’s almost insulting because the cover-up stories are so empty, so foolish, so ridiculous. SID: But what about that new technique, digital imaging? CHUCK: Yeah. It’s interesting that during, when Brigadier General Ramey made his press release countermanding Blanchard’s, the press took pictures. Many years later, just a few years ago, a guy by the name of Johnson, who took the picture, we were able to get the negatives, and by using advanced digital analysis of the negatives, they were able, an analyst by the name of Rudiak, was able to use advanced information techniques to unravel some words that were on the memo that was in Ramey’s hand, and it speaks of the victims and the disc that crashed. In other words-SID: Actually calls it, not a plane, a disc. CHUCK: A disc. And there are victims, implying, see the stories have always said there were four bodies. Three were dead and one was still alive. That was the unconfirmed rumors that we heard. Well it turns out that that memo, that unraveling is regarded as the smoking gun because it demonstrates that the Air Force has been lying all along. SID: Well these UFOs, they defy laws of physics. Your degree is in physics, actually. CHUCK: Yes. The thing, the fundamentals, and we want to get right at them. We’re presuming a lot here on your audience. The UFOs have two problems. One problem is they are tangible. They show up on multiple radars. They leave physical evidence: burnt ground and radioactivity, and so forth. So they’re tangible. They’re not hallucinogenic. Radar sets don’t have hallucinations, okay. SID: Right. CHUCK: On the other hand, they make right angle turns at exotic speeds. They go faster than the speed of sound without sonic booms. They do things that seem to violate physical laws, and yet they are physical in one sense, and yet they’re not physical in another. Now the other area we need to just acknowledge is this is the toughest area to research because, not only because of all the hoaxes and all the crackpots that are in this area. It is because of the deliberate disinformation by the government trying to hide these areas. But the net reality is Jacque Vallee, the Frenchman and J. Allen Hynek, the American, are probably the two most of the early pioneers, the two most reputable researchers. They both came to the conclusion that these things are hyper-dimensional. They’re not extra-galactical. That’s a very fundamental insight, by the way, because they seem to pose being something that they’re not. But the real point is that we’re dealing here with a phenomenon that bridges the physical reality we understand and a reality that’s outside that. One of the things we’ve discovered just in the 47 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

last few years is that some of the constants of physics are changing, that we thought were constant. And Scientific American, in June of 2005, ran an article in which they pointed out, if the constants of physics are changing that implies that our physical reality is actually a subset, a shadow of a larger reality. And when you start dealing in the UFO area that’s one of the other demonstrations that there is a hyper-dimensional aspect of this. SID: And you actually, from your research, believe that some of the people, the report they’ve been abducted, is actually true. CHUCK: That is the spookiest side of this whole area, and probably the classic author in this area is Dr. John Mack, Head of Psychiatry for Harvard Hospital. He’s written a book on this whole area. Clearly, and there was a conference at MIT on this whole subject, there are enormous numbers of people, some estimates are over one percent of the population, maybe it’s two or three percent, claimed to have had an experience which involves being abducted by these vehicles or whatever. And now their stories are too bizarre to accept, on the one hand. On the other hand, when you profile these people, they’re above average intelligence, no prior psychiatric history, clearly subject of some serious trauma, and not anxious. They’re almost trying to hide their stories rather than reveal them. SID: And their stories are similar. That’s the thing that’s so amazing. CHUCK: They’re united by some common threads. In fact, that was Mack’s challenge to the conference at MIT. He says if what these people say is happening isn’t happening, what is happening? Because these stories all have common links. SID: I’ll tell you what. Hold that thought. When we come back we’re going to talk about how these UFOs tie in with End Times. And Chuck, the only reason you’re involved in this is it’s a missing ingredient, something no one looks at in the End Times, these UFOs. Are these people around today, in your opinion, these descendants of the Nephilim? CHUCK: I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Not necessarily as descendants directly because I think that’s been dealt with. But at the same time, I do suspect that the UFOs are in fact a modern day echo, if you will, and that may be what Jesus was talking about when he says, “As the days of Noah were.” That he’s implying a parallelism. And so that’s why we got interested in this in the first place. And if that’s true we can test it very simply, because if we’re correct, these events are going to increase as we get increasingly closer to what we call the End Times. SID: Okay. There’s an illusion to this, I mean it really grabbed me when you explained it on my radio show, from Daniel. CHUCK: Yes. Oh exactly. In Daniel, Chapter 2, we have the famous images of Nebakanezer and as we goes through, the mystery is the iron mixed with clay. And when Daniel goes to explain what the miry clay is, he says, “As for the miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with seed of men.” Now I’ve had the eschatological experts confirm this. The “they”, see, he shifts to a personal pronoun, but the “they” has to be something other than the seed of men in order for them to mingle with them. Just 48 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

grammatically it requires that. So that leads to a speculation, what are we talking about here? One of the possibilities is that we’re dealing here with something that’s not the seed of men, namely, Nephilim, hybrids, and that’s a hint there that there will be a proliferation of hybrids at the End Times because that’s what Daniel is talking about. So that’s a staggering verse to deal with. SID: You know, one of the fascinating things I find in your two CDs that we’re making available is you talk about Joshua’s assignment to destroy all the people in particular areas that a lot of people wonder about. CHUCK: Yeah. When you read the New Testament reading, you’re shocked because God tells Joshua to wipe out every man, woman and child of 40 tribes. And that shocks, you know, the New Testament reader because we don’t understand that there is a gene pool problem again. We understand Genesis 6. The flood of Noah was dealing with, among other things, with a gene pool problem, the human predicament. What we don’t realize is, is that Satan had again laid down a mine field in Canaan when he found out from God’s revelation to Abraham that his descendants would be away and then return after 400 years. That gave Satan 400 years to lay down a mine field. When you study the Book of Judges geographically, you discover that they didn’t follow through in certain areas to wipe out their instructions. The places they missed was a place called Bashan. We call that the Golan Heights today. There’s other areas, the central part, that we would call Judea and Samaria, but now it’s called the West Bank. SID: The West Bank, right. CHUCK: And there’s a third area, a place called Gaza. And you stand back there and you realize those are areas where they failed to follow through in the Book of Judges, are the same areas that are under dispute today. And you begin to realize that there is a demon overlay on human history here that we need to understand. SID: That’s my next question. In your opinion, are we talking about aliens from foreign planets or are we talking demons? CHUCK: Well first of all, I don’t believe, even J. Allen Hynek and Jacque Vallee concluded that they’re not intergalactic for a number of good physical reasons. They believe they’re hyperdimensional,they’re demonic. They also pretend to be something they’re not. That means that one of their tools is deceptions. And so that gives us a perspective of where they stand biblically. I believe that they are real today and that they are demonic in their root purpose. And so that creates a danger to anyone that isn’t tutored in this area, and that’s one reason that we include it in our materials in terms of our own spiritual hygiene. SID: Well there are over a dozen astronauts that have reported UFOs. And one astronaut in particular, his name is Dr. Edgar Mitchell, he’s appealing that the files be open. Let’s take a look at that. CHUCK: Okay.

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Dr. Edgar Mitchell: And what I am suggesting it is now time to put away this embargo of truth about the alien presence. And I call upon our government to open up, like other governments have, and you will hear about that this morning, like the Belgians have, the French have, the Brazilians have, the Argentines, the Mexicans have all released their files. It’s about time now that we do the same thing and become a part of this planetary community. SID: That is so amazing to me, Chuck. Are we going to open up our files or not? CHUCK: And the very fact there’s resistance is alarming. You’d think that if there’s nothing to hide they’d open it up. So the question that we can only speculate, you only feed speculation the way they’re operating by keeping a secret. SID: Okay. Former President Reagan, you were telling me about an amazing, amazing statement he made about UFOs. CHUCK: Well that they may be the ingredient that it may take to get the world together. But on the presidential side, there have been two presidents that have tried to crack the security and couldn’t, and four congressmen. So we need to put pressure-SID: So what is going to happen when the President of the United States, “There are UFOs. We’re being invaded. There’s gonna be a one-world government.” I mean, there we are, End Time prophecy. CHUCK: It looks like it’s very easy to see how this could have a major role in setting the stage if we understand the classical biblical scenario. And that’s one reason when go at this area your primary study should be to understand what the Bible has said all along is the destiny of man and the forward history of governments. And so as we watch everyday as we look at our newspaper and see where the world is going, not just in this area, the whole geopolitical horizon is converging. The more you know about your Bible and the more you know about what’s really going on in the geopolitical horizon, the more you see the convergence. We’re plunging into the climax of human history. SID: Based on all of your Bible study, all your research, where is America right now? CHUCK: Well America is in deep trouble. The America you and I grew up, I believe, is over. I think that everybody, the most common question I get asked as I travel, I have questions, is where is America in prophecy. And everybody, all the End Time players in eschatology are well identified in the Bible, and they’re there. America is conspicuous for not being. The other question that I always get asked is, why hasn’t God judged America? Billy Graham, several decades ago-SID: Well listen, we have a few seconds left in this show. We don’t know when the end is gonna, we don’t know the day or hour. Make Jesus your Lord. Get to know him intimately. Let God say, “I want to be your friend.” He’s speaking it to you now.

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DANIEL ESTULIN: PRESENTATION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: Daniel Estulin (born in Vilnius, Lithuania) is an author, public speaker, conspiracy theorist whose main interest is the Bilderberg Group, an annual invitation-only conference of the elites in the fields of business, finance, media, military and politics. He is known for his extensive works on this group having written a book called "The True Story of the Bilderberg Group" as well as for his live seminars throughout the world. In an interview, Estulin describes his background, which led him to his profession: "I’m a Russian expatriate who was kicked out of the Soviet Union in 1980. My father was a dissident who fought for freedom of speech who was jailed, tortured by the KGB. Suffered two political deaths. When these people got tired of us they threw us out. We moved to Canada and 12 years ago I came to Spain. My grandfather was a colonel in the KGB and the counter-intelligence in the 1950s, so I am privileged somewhat to get a lot of the information from secret service which are our best sources of information. Not only the KGB people but the MI6 people, the CIA because most of the people who work for the secret service as you probably know are patriots and they love their country and they’re doing it for the good of the nation and they’re the first ones absolutely terrified of the plans of the Bilderbergers".

Estulin wrote The True Story of the Bilderberg Group (original title: La Verdadera Historia Del Club Bilderberg), a report on the nature and meetings of the world’s most powerful people. According to Estulin's book, the secretive Bilderbergers have been making major important political, economical and social decisions since their first gathering in 1954. Estulin published a second book, Los secretos del club Bilderberg, released in September 2006. The English version, The Secrets of the Bilderberg Club, was released in the US on September 22, 2007. In December 2007, Estulin appeared on the Alex Jones Show, and claimed that he had "received information from sources inside the U.S. intelligence community which suggests that people from the highest levels of the U.S. government are considering an assassination attempt against Congressman Ron Paul because they are threatened by his burgeoning popularity" as a presidential candidate. Estulin has worked with American journalist Big Jim Tucker who has a similar interest in the activities of the Bilderberg Group. On June 1st 2010 Daniel Estulin made an unprecedented speech before the European Parliament on at its headquarters in Brussels. Estulin, was invited to speak at the European Parliament by Mario Borghezio, the most senior Member of European Parliament from Italy. The European Parliament is one of the most powerful legislatures in the world. Estulin’s talk is equivalent to addressing a joint session of Congress. In fact, never before has Bilderberg as a subject seen the light of day in front of such a highly respectable audience - elected senators of European nations. The full details of this speech are as follows.

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Ladies and gentlemen, We are now in a position to change history. I finally believe that mankind has a future. A once demoralised population with no moral purpose is coming out of their prolonged slumber. In this general awakening, people are beginning to ask the right questions. It´s no longer, “what will I get out of it?” but rather “What´s right?” It´s an international phenomenon of response and reaction to an overly felt perception that the entire world is doomed to catastrophe, unless we the people do something about it. I have written a book on the subject of the Bilderberg Group. This book, in a way, has become the catalyst for a movement around the world. Now, we don´t have a lot of time, so I would like to explain to you what Bilderberg is and why it must be stopped. In the world of international finance, there are those who steer the events and those who react to the events. While the latter are better known, greater in numbers, and seemingly more powerful, the true power rests with the former. At the centre of the global financial system are the financial oligarchy today represented by the Bilderberg group. Bilderberg organization is dynamic, in that it changes with the times, absorbs and crates new parts while excreting the remains of the decaying parts. Members come and go, but the system itself has not changed. It is a self-perpetuating system, a virtual spider web of interlocked financial, political, economic and industry interests. Now, Bilderberg isn´t a secret society. It is not an evil, all-seeing eye. There is no conspiracy even though a lot of people with their infantile fantasies see it as such. No group of people, and I don’t care how powerful they are, sit around the table in dark room, holding hands, staring at a crystal ball, planning the world´s future. It´s a meeting of people who represent a certain ideology. Not One World Government or New World Order as too many people mistakenly believe. Rather, the ideology is of a ONE WORLD COMPANY LIMITED. Back in 1968, at a Bilderberg meeting in Canada, George Ball, the then Under-secretary for Economic Affairs with JFK and Johnson said: “Where does one find a legitimate base for the power of corporate management to make decisions that can profoundly affect the economic life of nations to whose governments they have only limited responsibility?” The idea behind each and every Bilderberg meeting is to create what they themselves call THE ARISTOCRACY OF PURPOSE between European and North American elites on the best way to manage the planet. In other words, the creation of a global network of giant cartels, more powerful than any nation on Earth, destined to control the necessities of life of the rest of humanity, obviously from their vantage point, for our own good and in our benefit – THE GREAT UNWASHED AS THEY CALL US. Now, the reason people don’t believe in Bilderberg and other organisations working together exercising such control on the world stage is that theirs is a Cartesian fantasy world, in which the isolated intentions of some individuals, NOT the dynamics of social processes shape the course of 52 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

history as the movement of evolving ideas and themes over successive generations and even centuries. Bilderberg is a medium of bringing together financial institutions which are the world´s most powerful and most predatory financial interests. And at this time, it is that combination which is the worst enemy of humanity. We can all congratulate ourselves in that today, Bilderberg has become the mainstay of corporate media. Not because corporate media has suddenly remembered their responsibility to us, but because we the people, have forced them into this uncomfortable position by becoming very aware that Presidents and Prime Ministers and your little shrinking Queens and Kings are puppets of powerful forces working from behind the scenes. Something has happened to us, the people in the midst of this general economic collapse. People at large are gripped by something they don’t always understand. But, it compels them to act in a certain way, in their own interest. That´s what they are doing in Greece. That’s what they are doing in Spain, in the United States. It´s called the anthropic principle. It´s like a tidal movement came upon us and washed our fears away. As people realise that their existence is threatened, they have lost their fear, and Bilderberg and others sense it. Perhaps that´s why at a recent Council on Foreign Relations speech in Montreal, Zbigniew Brzezinski, one of the founders of the TC, warned that a “global political awakening,” in combination with infighting amongst the elite, was threatening to derail the move towards a one world government. You see people at this table come from very different ideological and political backgrounds. What unites us, however, is that we are all patriots. And those who oppose us, those who work for secret societies, who have sold their nations out for a pound of flesh, are traitors. Not only traitors of their people and nations, but of humanity as a whole. Now, the subject of this Press Conference is Bilderberg: Towards One World Company Ltd. About six and a half centuries ago, the economy of Europe had collapsed into what is known as Europe´s “New Dark Age,” the greatest economic and demographic collapse of Europe since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Then, in the middle of the 14C, much of the power of the oligarchy abruptly disintegrated. This disintegration erupted as the sudden, chain-reaction collapse of the worst financial bubble of debt speculation in history, until now, that is, when the banking houses of Bardi and Peruzzi went under. This disintegration and collapse of the Lombard debt bubble caused a collapse in the power among the oligarchical families. What does it have to do with Bilderberg? Modern history superseded medieval history at that moment that the institutions which singularly distinguish modern from medieval history were put into place. That occurred back in 1439 at the Council of Florence. What were those new institutions? •

The conception of the modern nation state republics under the government of natural law. 53 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

•

The central role of the fostering of scientific and technological progress as the mandate given to the republic.

These two ideals represent a crucial argument: their existence as institution, in any part of Europe, changed everything in all of Europe because these institutional changes increased the rate of development of per-capita and per-square kilometre of mankind over nature. So, no nation could afford not to progress, not to develop for the fear of being left hopelessly behind. The first success occurred under France´s Louis XI, who doubled the per-capita income of France, and defeated all of France´s enemies. Louis XI success sparked a chain reaction of efforts to establish a nation-state on this model in Henry VII´s England and elsewhere. Another key idea to come out of Council of Florence which was later implemented in the United States is a universal principle of GENERAL WELFARE, on which all modern civilised society is based. Now, welfare does not mean a useless bum sitting on the couch, eating a pizza, slobbering all over himself, watching television, while he is waiting for an unemployment check to arrive. It is a question of immortality. What´s the intention of the existence of man, and government? It´s to provide for the welfare, of future generations of mankind. To assure our survival as the species. The principle of the General Welfare, as expressed in summation in the preamble of the Federal Constitution of the United States, is the fundamental law. So, how is it related to today? These people want an Empire. That´s what globalization is. And too many people believe that in order to have an Empire, you need money. You have all heard of the phrase – THE MONEY ELITE. But money, is not a determinant of wealth and the economy. Money does not make the world go around. Money has no intrinsic value. Human mind affects the development of the planet. This is how mankind is measured. This is the true meaning of IMMORTALITY. What separates us from animals is our ability to discover universal physical principles. It allows us to innovate, which subsequently improves the lives of people by increasing the power of man over nature. You see, they are destroying the world economy on purpose. This isn´t the first time either. This was done in the 14th century New Dark Age: 30% of the population wiped out. Empire=dumb people down. They want to destroy the creative powers of reason. 0 growth, 0 progress. Club of Rome (Limits to Growth) 1973 PROJECT 1980S CFR, promoting controlled disintegration of the world economy. BILDERBERG 1995. Demand destruction. How? By destroying the world economy on purpose. GREAT DEPRESSION – TRANSFER OF WEALTH. The Great Depression was not an event that wiped out U.S. capitalists. It was an event that made the rich even richer by transferring the wealth of the people 54 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

into the hands of the already wealthy. That´s how Bank of America made their billions through real estate foreclosures from 1929-37. Don’t believe for a minute that the richest of the rich will be hurt by the coming collapse. The only ones hurt will be you and me. Look at Greece. What they are trying to do is blow up the system by, instead of allowing Greece to reorganise its money system, they are imposing that Greece be used, that the Greek debt be bailed out by Europe. But, that debt is worthless. It´s garbage, it´s monopoly money. So, asking Europe, which is going through its own financial meltdown, to absorb an unpayable debt, which the Greeks, by the way, can NEVER repay, means you are going to FOR SURE, destroy Europe. And, it is being done on purpose, because nobody, not even Barroso, who with all due respect to him is absolutly intellectually challenged or Trichet are that stupid. Let´s get rid of the bureaucracy in Brussels. Let´s fire them all. They are bums. They are useless. These people have never done anything useful in their lives. Get rid of Barroso. He failed history in high school. Get rid of the “wet rag,” Van Rumpey not because he is useless but because he is evil and very dangerous. It´s not the first time that an unloved, short, evil little man has gnawed his way into the bowels of power. You see, it is a question of leadership and a question of immortality. All of the leaders of society, especially in times of crisis, are leaders because they measure up to some approximation of that standard. People such as Barroso, Van Rumpey, EU President Jean Claude Juncker, Dominique StraussKahn, the managing director of the IMF can hardly be considered leaders. In fact, they can hardly be considered humans, from the perspective of human representing A GREATER GOOD OF HUMANITY. Now, what I am talking about is not a scientific problem or economic question, but rather a morality question. A question of immortality. Do we as nation states, as people of the Planet believe in the future of mankind? And what kind of future will we have 100 or 200 years in the future. What about 10,000 years from now? Do we have a right to dream? If we have a sense of purpose for being here, then the bad guys can´t win. For example, we have been told that euro must be saved. That euro´s failure will bring down the European Union. That´s a lie. Instead of a weak, dysfunctional European monetary union, we go back to being independent nation state republics – Europe of the Fatherlands. Cultural diversity is not only humanity’s hallmark of progress, but an insurance policy against extinction as a species. Once born, a nation state concept never dies; it only waits for courageous and sane human beings to come to its defence, to perfect the concept. So therefore, we should be a fraternity of nations, of sovereign nations—united by a common purpose for humanity. Until we can bring mankind into the Age of Reason, history will be shaped in actuality, not by the wills of masses of humanity, but by the mere handfuls who, for purposes of good or evil, steer the fate of mankind generally as herds of cows are steered to and from the pasture—and, occasionally, also to the slaughter-house.

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INTERVIEW: THE ANGLO-SAXON MISSION Bill Ryan has a BSc in Mathematics with Physics and Psychology (Bristol University, UK, 1974), and followed this with a brief stint in teaching. For 27 years he was a management consultant specializing in personal and team development, leadership training and executive coaching. Major long-term clients included BAe (Systems) Ltd (formerly British Aerospace), HewlettPackard, and PricewaterhouseCoopers. In November 2005 he inaugurated the Project Serpo website, the report of an alleged disclosure, in stages, of a US-alien exchange program which took place over 40 years ago. While he had been interested in UFOs, Free Energy research and alternative medicine (he is trained as a kinesiologist) for over thirty years, his first contact with the UFO community at large occurred after establishing the Serpo website. He resigned his management consultancy post in May 2006 and now devotes all his time to Project Camelot. Historians tell us that the "Anglo-Saxon Mission" refers to the spread of christianity in the 8th century. But over a thousand years later, there is now another, far more sinister meaning to the phrase. We recently received 11 pages of information from an insider who was physically present at a meeting of Senior Masons in the City of London in 2005. What was discussed is chilling to the bone. I (Bill) did an audio interview with our 'source', an Englishman whose identity we have verified with all details known and confirmed. This man, like many we have spoken with, is no longer able to live with his conscience or to keep this information secret. What our 'source' reports is this: There is a planned Third World War, which will be nuclear and biological. Our 'source' believes that this is on track to be initiated within the next 18-24 months. It is planned to begin with a strike by Israel on Iran. Either Iran or China will be provoked into a nuclear response. After a brief nuclear exchange, there will be a ceasefire. The world will be thrown into fear and chaos - all carefully engineered. The extreme state of tension will be used to justify heavy social and military controls in all western first world nations. Plans are already in place for that. During the nuclear ceasefire, there is planned to be a covert release of biological weapons. These will initially be targeted against the Chinese. As our 'source' chillingly told us, "China will catch a cold". Biological warfare will spread further, to the west. Infrastructure will be critically weakened. This is intended to be just the beginning. After this, a full nuclear exchange would be triggered: the "real" war, with widespread destruction and loss of life. Our 'source' tells us that the planned population reduction through these combined means is 50%. He heard this figure stated in the meeting. 56 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

This horrific scenario has been planned for generations. The first two world wars were part of the set-up for this final apocalypse - as is the centralization of financial resources that was precipitated with the equally well-planned financial collapse of October 2008. As if all this were not enough, our 'source' speculates this is all set against the backdrop of a coming "geophysical event" - the same kind of event as was experienced by our ancestors approximately 11,500 years ago. If this event occurs - not necessarily expected in 2012, but sometime in the next decade - it would destroy civilization as we know it, dwarfing even the effects of a nuclear war. I asked the question to our 'source': If there's an expected catastrophe, then why initiate a Third World War? His answer, for the first time to me, made terrible sense. The real goal, he explained, is to set up the post-catastrophic world. To ensure that this "New World" [note the term] is the one the controllers want, totalitarian control structures need to be in place when the catastrophe occurs - with an excuse that the populace will accept and demand them. Martial law in the right, carefully chosen countries before the catastrophe occurs will enable the "right" people to survive and prosper in the post-catastrophic world, and the beginning of the next 11,500 year cycle. What may have been carefully planned on a covert global scale, for the last several generations, is nothing less than who will inherit the Earth. Who are the "right" people? The white Caucasians. This may be why the name of this project is The Anglo-Saxon Mission. Hence the justification for the planned genocide of the Chinese people - so that the New World is inherited by "us", not "them". Our 'source' was not informed about the planned fate of the second and third world countries such as those in South America, Africa and Asia. But he presumes that these would be allowed to fend for themselves and probably not survive well - or maybe not at all. The totalitarian military governments of the western, white, people are set to be the inheritors. This is a plan so evil, so racist, so diabolical, so huge, that it almost defies belief. But it all aligns with what many commentators, researchers and whistleblowing insiders have been identifying for some years now. For me personally, it's the clearest picture yet of why the world is the way it is, and why the secrets are protected so fiercely: it may be all about racial supremacy. The Fourth Reich is alive and well. Astonishingly, our 'source' was not pessimistic. He stressed, as do we and many other researchers and commentators, that consciousness is awakening rapidly all over the planet and that THESE PLANNED EVENTS ARE NOT INEVITABLE. 57 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

If ever there was a reason to work closely together to raise awareness of the real threat to us all, this is it. The content of this interview is as follows. BILL RYAN (Ryan): I want to thank you for coming forward with what was immediately clear to me, once I'd read your written debrief, that you have some highly significant information that needs to be shared. And it's our job at Project Camelot to assist you in reaching people who are aware enough to understand what you're saying, why it's important, and to put it in perspective with other information that they may have. And to introduce all of this, I wonder if you could say what it is that you're prepared to say on record about your background, about your history... just in general what you think is okay to share about how it is that you've actually been positioned to get a hold of the information that you're going to be reporting. WITNESS (Witness): Okay. Well, the information I've shared with you already, I feel, it's not Earthshattering. I feel it's something that a lot of people will already have grasped with the amount of information that is getting put out on the internet already. If there's any uniqueness within the information that I'm providing to you, that I feel should be shared, is that it's first-hand information and it's given to you freely for those who wish to use it and to inform themselves. I think that that's my initial position on this. For my part, I've spent a long time in the military and then held a senior position in the City of London, and within both institutions I became very intimate with events that were being manufactured secretly, covertly, on behalf of a group of people -- I can't say it's on behalf of a nation or a community because it's certainly none of that -- but it's certainly something is to do with a group of people whose interests lie within themselves and what they're doing to coerce a series of events to happen. Looking back with hindsight now, I can see quite clearly they're being most successful in doing what they're doing. And I feel, because of what I know, that time is running out for these people. So the timeline that I'm going to describe is somehow ... and that's an apt title, really, because a timeline starts somewhere and it ends somewhere and these people are very well aware of it. We're coming up to a critical time now, which everybody's discussing at the moment. I'm very well aware of that. But the information I've brought may put some flesh on the bones for other people to consider themselves. And as for the veracity of it, I can only tell you that what I'm going to tell you is truthful, albeit lots of people may think it's a perception. I'm quite happy with that, too. But it's been my experience, and it's that experience that I'm going to share. Ryan: Yes. What would be great is if you can differentiate between information which came at you first-hand when you were physically in meetings with some of these people, and other information 58 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

that you've got that was through more subjective means, which you may feel very confident in. It's important to separate out the provenance of the information. But for you, of course, and for many other people who will be reading this, it actually forms a coherent picture. Right? Witness: Yes. I think that's important. I think anything like this has to be coherent. And of course there is a subjective element to it; I mean, I can't deny that. But, you know, all of it could be looked at as being subjective, but it's also from a witness point of view. Hopefully, how I'm going to describe it, people will be able to see through any subjective feelings I've got about it and get to the core of what's going on. Ryan: Right. Now, if you could just add a little bit of detail about the group that you referred to. Does this group have any kind of name that they're calling themselves? Is this a group that other people reading this would recognize when cross-referencing information? Witness: I've had difficulty myself in trying to describe these people. I've called them like a "Band of Brothers." I've also called them an "over-government". There's also other names I could call them, some of them derogatory, and that would be deserved. [laughs] But I think the best way, the most sensible way to describe these people so that people can understand what they're like, is they're like an over-government, because that's what they're doing. Ryan: Are you talking about British people here, or international people? Witness: The meeting that I will refer to later, it was all British, and some of them are very well known characters who people in the United Kingdom will recognize immediately. Those who are international who might read this might have to do bit of research on them. But they are national figures, some of them. Ryan: Are they political figures? Or are they figures in the "noble classes", so to speak? Witness: Yes, there is a bit of aristocracy there, and some of them come from quite aristocratic backgrounds. There's one who I identified at that meeting who is a senior politician. Two others were senior figures from the police, and one from the military. Both are known nationally and both are key figures in advising the present government -- at this present time. Ryan: And inasmuch as there's a political component to this, does this political component go across both parties? Witness: No, this senior political component belongs to the right-wing party in Britain, the Conservative Party. Ryan: Okay. For the benefit of American readers, that would be the equivalent of the Republicans. Witness: Yes. Ryan: All right. So, it's an insider group that functions in Britain as many American readers of this transcript would recognize by analogy -- it's like the American secret government. You're talking about 59 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

politicians behind the scenes who are still very influential, links with the police, links with the military. Are there also American military links in there? Witness: Yes. Ryan: Okay. Witness: One significant military figure, now retired, but active in advising government. Ryan: Okay. Are you aware of or did you hear any discussion of any participation by church authorities or the Vatican or any of the religions of the world? Was this mentioned as part of their strategic planning for all of this? Witness: No. Not at all, but I know the Church of England, especially, is complicit in everything that's going on, totally complicit. Ryan: Okay. And you know this because of the close relationship between senior figures in the Church of England and the group that you met with in the City of London? Witness: Absolutely. You don't need a forensic expert to find that one out. That's quite open. Ryan: Okay. Is this all fundamentally Masonic? Witness: Absolutely. There's no question about that. Everybody is vetted through that process, through the Masonic process, and then they get to meet one another. That's something that people need to understand. There are levels in Masonry. You know, most Masons don't really know anything at all, and they're out there doing good work for the most part and they get the benefit of a kind of "club," as it were. But that goes through various levels. Some people call it by "degrees" or whatever. But it's a Who's Who. That is -- who can be trusted, who can be brought together, who's holding power, who's likely to develop more power. And these people attract one another and they get together because they all have a single cause. But it's not exactly like a Masonic cause, you know. It's something that can be likened to it, but not the same as it. Ryan: Could you explain that a little more clearly? Witness: Well, I think the best way to explain this is: Masonry, is to my knowledge, is just a vehicle for these people. It allows them to come together quietly, in secret, behind closed doors, get to know one another, feel safe and secure knowing confidently that what's said in these meetings go no further than those meetings. So it's got that Masonic element to it, but this goes to an entirely different level altogether. Now, the meeting that I'm talking about, I don't even consider these people to be a significant level -significant enough for me at the time -- but they were discussing things that were already agreed upon 60 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

and planned and dictated. They were really getting together to share information, to find out how well it was going and what was needed to keep it on track. Ryan: So things had already been decided at an even higher level than this. Is that what you're saying? Witness: That was very clear. From what I heard, they weren't a decision-making group. They were like an action group. They were people who needed to come together now and then to discuss together what needs to be done, or what is getting done, and what should be getting done. And then they disperse and go back and do what they need to do, as a result of these meetings. Ryan: Okay. And you attended one meeting? Witness: Only one. Ryan: And in what capacity did you attend this meeting? Witness: By sheer accident! I thought it was a normal three-monthly meeting because I looked at the e-mail list, which had familiar names on it, and I was on it. But by that time, because of the senior position I held within the City, I just thought it was quite normal for me to be earmarked for this kind of meeting. So when I went to the meeting, it wasn't the same venue as before. It was a livery company venue, which is quite unusual, but not too unusual to wonder why. I went to this meeting and it was not the meeting that I was expecting. I believe I was invited... it was because of the position I held and because they believed that, like themselves, I was one of them. Ryan: So you were included because they already knew you. You were regarded as a safe pair of hands. Witness: Absolutely. Yes. I was a safe pair of hands. I was a do-er. I was one of the people who, at my level within the organization, got things done. Ryan: Okay. Witness: And I was regarded as that. Lots had known me for some time, even the most senior figures within them. I mean, it was first-name terms, that sort of thing. And I'd also been regularly invited to various functions, social functions, and things like that where I became familiar with some of them and some of them became very familiar with me. So it was easy-going, quite professional, nothing out of the ordinary, although bells started to ring about what they were up to and what they were doing and the kind of decisions that they were making, which by and large, I ignored. It seems unusual, but there was a part of me that wanted to ignore what was going on. Ryan: Are you saying that in this particular meeting we're talking about, the people who attended the meeting were familiar to you, largely, and you'd attended other meetings with them before; but this 61 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

was a meeting with a difference because it was in a different location and with a different agenda, although the delegates to the meeting were basically the same group? Is that what you're saying? Witness: No, not exactly. I knew most of the attendees at the meeting, but not all. There were about 25 or 30 people were at the meeting. And it was looked rather informal, you know, people getting to know one another, re-acquainting themselves as people do. There was nothing unusual about that. It was when the subjects started to come up that my astonishment started to rise at what was being said. Ryan: Was it like a formal chaired meeting around a table, with notes and water glasses, and all of that kind of stuff? Witness: None of the sort. There were no notes taken -- nothing. It was really a behind-closed-doors meeting with people talking over one another, some people holding the audience, spelling out what their concerns were, catapulting onto other things that they thought were of concern to them. And then describing, which I can only say is the "timeline of events" that they had anticipated to be happening, to be on course, and lots of concerns because it wasn't. And what was meant to happen on the timeline that hadn't happened, and what actions were going to be taken for it to happen. And this is where things started to get quite surreal -- because I'd never been in the company of people like this, talking like that. Now, the group of people who I was most familiar with, the people who do the work within the City, they belong to various well known financial committees; some of them quite diverse committees, but they all belong to the same organization. These are people who go unseen; most people don't know who they are. I know them. I know them by sight, know them by name. I know them by what they do. It was the other people who were there at the time that surprised me. Three others in particular. There were more people there who were at their type of level as well who I couldn't really identify, but three of significance, certainly. Ryan: Okay, now when was this meeting? Let's put a date on it. Witness: Okay. We're talking 2005. It was after the May general election -- that's when Blair was voted back in again. That meeting definitely took place some time in June of that year. Ryan: It is okay to put on record that it was in June? Witness: June 2005 is fine. Yes. Ryan: All right. Now I wonder then if you could spell out what it was that was discussed at that meeting. Witness: Well, as I mentioned, I was quite surprised to see the amount of people who were there. The meeting ranged from several discussions covering several items or things that were happening at the 62 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

world in the time, so there was quite a big discussion about security within the country. And one of those three key persons there has now assumed the role over this... is actually doing it now. He's there now. He's in that position right now. The big thing at the time was Iraq. That was on their agenda, but also, surprisingly, there was lots of conversation and talk about Iran. And what surprised me and really raised my eyebrows, was mention, open mention -- this was people talking comfortably to one another, not arguing or shouting -- but talking comfortably about the Israeli reluctance to strike and provoke Iran into armed action. That was something that really raised the hairs on the back of my neck. And it seemed as if the Israeli government was tied onto what was going on here and had a role to play which was being dictated outside Israeli borders. A year later, Israel attacked Iranian-backed Hezbollah bases in Lebanon. And then the second thing that came out that I recall quite clearly was mention of Japanese reluctance to create havoc within the Chinese financial sectors. I really couldn't understand why they were talking about that and why that had any importance. What I picked up from this seemed to be the Japanese government, or those in Japan, being coerced or ordered into doing something that would wreck or slow down the Chinese rise to financial power. It was mentioned that China was growing too quickly and the main beneficiary of that growth was the Chinese military, which was getting modernized, mostly through the money that they were getting from the world market. And then things... and this is where I can't help but be subjective, Bill. Because at the time I recall I started to feel quite sick about what was being spoken about, and very anxious about what was being said. I was on the periphery of this meeting and I could feel the anxiety just rise up inside me because this was stuff that was getting spoken about off the cuff. It wasn't getting announced to anybody. This was things that they already knew about. So then there was open talk about the use of biological weapons, where and when they would be used, and the timing. And timing always appears to be crucial. And then there was more talk centered on how Iran must be engaged militarily in order to provoke the desired military response from China. There was a clear expectation of goading Iran into some sort of armed conflict with the West, with China coming to the aid of Iran. Through this goading, either China or Iran would use a tactical nuclear weapon of some sort. And, as I mentioned, these people weren't making decisions. They were discussing something that had already been planned, so they were simply sharing their information between themselves. And it 63 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

became clear as these discussions went on that the central issue of this meeting was when the balloon would go up -- when all this would happen. Other talk centered on dealing with finances, resources, protection of assets, and a control of these resources and bringing in outlying assets. And I can go through this chain of events with you now, Bill, if you like. Ryan: I'd be really happy to go into as much detail as you feel you can. Witness: Okay. Now, as I previously mentioned, they needed either the Chinese or the Iranians to be guilty of the first use of nuclear weapons in order to justify the next stage. Now, I've already added, and this is anecdotal, so it can't be confirmed. But my information coming through in this meeting, and from elsewhere, positively indicates that the Iranians do indeed have a tactical nuclear capability right now. They're not developing it. They've got it. Ryan: Some say they might have got it from the Russians, maybe. Do you have any idea about that? Witness: I believe it's from the Chinese. Ryan: From the Chinese... okay. Witness: It's because the Chinese technology has been, for many years, used in their missile systems. They're getting missile technology also from the Russians as well, but this is mostly ground-to-air missile systems, that sort of thing -- defensive weapons. Tactical missile weaponry -- that technology is coming via China. Ryan: Do you have some expertise in this subject from your own military background? Witness: Yes, I do. Ryan: Okay, so this means that in this meeting where you were hearing this information, you were able to hear this wearing your military hat, with your military experience, and understand strategically and tactically what it was they were talking about and why. Witness: Oh, absolutely. I could have even stepped in and corrected their terminology because I believe they were getting it wrong, but they were just describing it the best way they could. Ryan: Right. Witness: So yes, I do have quite a deep knowledge of those types of weapons, and weapons systems in general. Ryan: Weapons systems in general; sure. Okay, back to where we were, that was a little footnote that you put in there, saying that you felt, anecdotally, but you're also confident in that opinion, that Iran did actually have a current nuclear capability. 64 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: Yes, if I can put this in here, Bill, before this escapes me... it's anecdotal in the sense that the discussion didn't mention that Iran didn't have them. The discussion leant toward the Iranians having that type of weapon and not having them. I think the distinction would have been made there -- if they didn't have them. It wasn't mentioned that they DIDN'T have them. It leant towards them having such weapons already. Ryan: I understand. Now, I don't want to get you off track, but there's the potential analogy with the Iraqi situation, where Western governments and military, whether they really knew the truth or not, were certainly telling the public that the Iraqi military capability was far greater than it really was. Is it possible that there was some delusion here with respect to Iran's capability? Or do you think they really did know what the Iranians have and could do? Witness: Making a comparison with Iraq is a natural thing to do. However, in this context, I think it could mislead. The backing that Iraq got during the Iran-Iraq War was mostly Western. And of course "Western" we must include Israel, so the likelihood of Iraq getting a nuclear weapon that they haven't produced themselves, but getting it imported to them, would be extremely low. Now, the other side of the coin is Iran. Now, Iran is being continuously backed by China and then later by the Russians; and also by other countries too. The military market is quite an open one and in that we can even include the French, who quite independently export their weapons out wherever they can. Ryan: Yes. Witness: Even in defiance of conventions in place about the sale of weapons abroad. But this goes a bit beyond that. We're talking about a country that's being used quite well by another country throughout the revolutionary period -- where they have been seen as an enemy of all the Western states, and also the Gulf states as well. Ryan: You mean, you're referring to Iran being used by China? Witness: China. Yes. They're both using each other, of course. China's economy is skyrocketing. I don't know if it's reached its plateau now or not, and I'm not talking about that. But the amount of weaponry and the level of technical expertise that Iran is receiving from the Chinese military -- it seems inconceivable that nuclear weapons haven't been included within any package that goes there; whether that comes under the direct control of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards or jointly by the Iranians and the Chinese. One can't be sure. But I go back to what I said before, that at that meeting, the assumption was -- and it was quite clear -that the Iranians HAD such weapons in their possession because it wasn't mentioned to the contrary. Ryan: Understood. And what you're going to go on to talk about is how this cooperation between Iran and China was going to be used as a way to get at China -- because China's the main target. Is this correct? 65 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: That's correct. China has been the main target since at least the mid 70s -- and again, this information it's through third parties so I can't give you any direct first-hand evidence of this -- but it's always been China. It was always China that is to be the big one in this timeline. Ryan: Mm hm. Witness: It's China that they're after right now, and it's all about how to coerce and create the scenario where this type of -- well, it's going to be war, Bill; there's going to be a war -- how this can be realized and how it can be made credible to everybody here living in the West? And the way it's going to be made credible is by a state like Iran being used as a patsy to use a nuclear weapon in order to elicit an exchange. Ryan: And the whole justification of this, then, is to provide or to trick China into a war, with what reason? Witness: China will then come to the aid of Iran, very quickly. And what we're talking about is these "Roads to Jerusalem," as it were. And it should be no surprise that the Chinese have got their own "Road to Jerusalem," so to speak, because that's where the oil is -- their lifeline -- and that's where their power could be extended far more than where it is at the moment. Ryan: I didn't understand what you meant there by Jerusalem. Was that a metaphor, talking about Iran? Witness: Yes. It was my metaphor. Although I haven't mentioned it to you previously, you know, they talk about "the road to Jerusalem," as it were. People like Benjamin Netanyahu use it quite a lot. Obama has used it. The Chinese president has actually used it, I believe, too. Hu Jintao, his name is. They've actually used this metaphor. Ryan: I didn't know that. Witness: Yes, they have. It's where that road lies. Does it lie through Tehran, going one way? Or does it lie through Tehran again, coming the other way? Ryan: Okay, so you're using it basically as a metaphor for a desired goal, something that's reached and attained. Witness: That's right. Ryan: Okay. So what you're saying, then, is that there's a long-term plan which has being decided quite a while ago to set up the situation, to set up the chessboard, the global chessboard, so that there will be a war with China. This is what you're saying. Witness: Yes, in a nutshell. You've got it. It's a whole series of events, and a lot of them have been realized. And again I can only emphasize that time seems to be critical.

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Ryan: What has happened, and what is yet to happen, and what is the eventual roll-out plan that they want to happen if everything that they wanted were to occur? Witness: Well, the plan is for the fuse to be set off in the Middle East again, in a way that would make the previous conflicts in the Middle East look like playground scraps. It will involve the use of nuclear weapons and, again, it's to create an atmosphere of chaos and extreme fear, not just in the West but throughout the world, and to put in place what I've mentioned as unified totalitarian Western governments; and to do this China needs to be taken out, politically and socially, for this to happen. Ryan: So what they're doing here, they're killing two birds with one stone. They're using this as a justification to create what many on the internet have called the One World Government, except that's not including China. You're talking about the Western nations in lockdown alliance against this new threat. Witness: It's specifically the Western nations, but I think we've also got to include Japan in this too. Ryan: And how about Russia? Where does Russia stand? Witness: I believe Russia is a player, but I've got no evidence. For some reason or other Russia really doesn't get a look in here; and it's just an assumption of mine that that Russian government that's in place at the moment is hand-in-hand with the controlling players that are here in the West. Ryan: Hm. So you're saying that because in this meeting that you attended, Russia wasn't mentioned as a major factor. Witness: No, none at all. The only way it was mentioned is that the whole idea is to create a condition of chaos throughout the world. It would mean the later use of biological weapons, widespread food shortages, which will affect vulnerable countries across the globe, followed by mass starvation and disease. The only mention that Russia gets in here is an odd one which I can't explain and maybe someone else can. I can't really get my head around this. But within this meeting it was mentioned: "to cause the Chinese military to attack Eastern Russia". Now, I can't qualify that and why that was mentioned at the meeting -- I just don't know. Ryan: Okay. So just to go back to what I mentioned a minute ago, about two birds with one stone. One goal here, then, is to establish a united alliance of Western countries with a kind of totalitarian "emergency war footing", heavy control aspect to it. And the other aspect is actually to light the fire of this war, which will result in all kinds of chaos and presumably an enormous number of people dying somewhere. Witness: Yes.

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Ryan: The Chinese population? Or everyone on the planet? Is this part of the population reduction plan? What did they say? Witness: Well, there was talk about biological agents being used, described as being flu-like and it would spread like wildfire. Now, they didn't mention it at this meeting, but I know now that it will attack people genetically, not everybody together. How that would happen... I'm not a geneticist, I really don't know. One can only assume that it's linked to DNA in some way. Ryan: Mm hm. Witness: And the differences that are found in DNA. These differences have been identified and the viruses can be made that could kill a person off and do it quite quickly. Ryan: And so the viruses are genetically targeted is what you're saying? Witness: Yes. Ryan: Genetically targeted for racial type, or more specific even than that? Witness: Racial type. I can be quite definite on that. They're talking about extinction of a whole part of the human race, doing so genetically. Ryan: Really? Did they mention that in this meeting, in those terms? Witness: Not exactly. Those are my terms. But this is how it was mentioned, and this is my recall of it and how this came out and how I've interpreted it. Ryan: Okay. Witness: But that's what it most definitely alluded to. Ryan: Are they talking about getting the Chinese out of the way because they're an inconvenient major group that's not playing ball with the global plans? Or are they talking about this as an excuse to thin down the entire world's population, including that in the Western countries? Witness: Well, it's a very good question and as far as I can see, it's a hypothetical one. Again, I can't give you an answer to that one. From a personal point of view, it definitely appears to be a thinning of the world's population and it's getting it down into a controllable size for this government that's going to come, in order for them to have the control that they wish for. Otherwise, they wouldn't have it. It even sickens me to speak about this now, it really does. It sickens me no end that they would go ahead and do this sort of thing; that such things have actually been spoken about. They're bringing the population down to what they coldly believe to be a "manageable level". Ryan: Can you reference in this meeting that you attended to those levels, or the numbers, or the percentages, or anything tangible that you can remember? 68 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: Yes. They're talking about half. Ryan: Wow. That's a lot of people. Witness: Yes. It is. Ryan: Okay. Witness: That's bringing it back down by half. Ryan: So that's more than the Chinese, then. That answers that question, doesn't it? Witness: Well, in a nuclear exchange -- and I believe there will be a limited nuclear exchange -- there will be some sort of ceasefire. That was spoken about; they anticipated a quick ceasefire, but not before millions had already died, principally in the Middle East. So we're probably talking about Israel here, the population in Israel being sacrificed. Also places like Syria, Lebanon, possibly Iraq, definitely Iran, you know, the towns and major cities, power plants and so forth, that sort of thing. And then a ceasefire before it goes full-out. Ryan: A cease...? Wow. Sorry, I'm interrupting you, I do apologize. A ceasefire before it goes full-out? Witness: Yes, it's like some sort of game of poker where they already know what hands are going to be dealt. They know what's going to be dealt. They know that scenario could be brought about and that scenario can be ended again with a ceasefire. So we'll have the ceasefire, and it's during this time of the ceasefire that events will start to really take off. Ryan: Do you know how? Witness: Yes. This is when biological weapons will be used. Ryan: Oh... Witness: This will create the conditions where biological weapons can be used. And here you've got to imagine a world, now post-nuclear war, or limited nuclear war, in chaos, financial collapse, totalitarian governments coming into place. Ryan: And a lot of damage to infrastructure. Witness: People living in total fear and panic -- this is what's going to happen next. You'll have a scenario... and this again was talked about, and I can go into some detail about how people will become more controllable with no one coming out in contention about what's going to happen because their own safety and security has now being placed firmly in the hands of those who are saying they can protect it best.

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And it's in this ensuing chaos of a post-nuclear exchange that these biological weapons will be deployed in such a fashion where there will be no structure, no safety-nets, for anybody to counter this type of biological onslaught. And it should be mentioned, for those who are not aware, that biological weapons are just as effective as nuclear ones; it just takes a while longer -- that's all. Ryan: Yes. Now, the deployment of the biological weapons following the ceasefire, is that something that happens covertly, like all of a sudden people will start getting ill and no one knows where it came from? Or is this an overt weapon deployment that would be very obvious? Witness: I don't think it would be overt, because the Chinese people are going to be hit by the flu! So there'll be a worldwide flu epidemic, perhaps, with a country like China -- or China, because China is mentioned -- being the one that's going to suffer most. Ryan: Okay. Now, if you were a Chinese military commander, what would you do in this situation? Presumably you would retaliate. Witness: Yes, indeed. The type of retaliation the Chinese armed forces could provide is not the same as those that are held in the West. The type of weapons that the West can deploy very, very quickly far outstrips anything that's within the technological grasp of the Chinese armed forces at the moment -although they're getting better as time goes on. But when I'm talking about China, we're talking about the People's Liberation Army, the People's Army, getting together quite quickly, and you're talking about mass movements of troops somehow into zones where they can engage with their opposite number. And in this type of exchange that's going to be nuclear... that's why I mentioned right at the very beginning... there will be a conventional war to begin with, then it will quickly go to nuclear with either Iran or the Chinese being provoked into first use, is because they won't be able to be in a position to defend themselves properly against what the West can deliver conventionally without going nuclear first. Ryan: Okay. So the Chinese are going to be obliged to go into a preemptive strike. Witness: Yes, all their options will be taken away from them... the retaliatory options will be taken away from them quite quickly and they wouldn't have time to recover. Ryan: Okay, now, what you were describing there was the situation before the ceasefire, when China was going to be provoked into using nuclear weapons. Witness: I think it's best to look at this in stages. So we're talking about a conventional war of sorts; that war then eliciting the use of a nuclear weapon either by the Chinese or by the Iranians. Ryan: Okay.

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Witness: Probably more likely by Iran, to stop it going any further. Then we're talking about an exchange of weapons and then a ceasefire before we have something that's no longer confined to a geographical area. Ryan: What does that look like? Is this global? For instance, are you talking nuclear weapons on American territory, in Europe, and so forth? Witness: No. Global nuclear war wasn't mentioned. Ryan: Okay. Witness: It was just purely geographical, Middle East. Ryan: Okay. So actually some people would refer to this as the Armageddon war, the war that's been prophesied. Witness: Yes. That's right. For those who are looking down those roads, you know, it certainly highlights a time where this sort of thing is going to occur. But probably not the way they thought, because I can't emphasize this too much: people in general are going to be placed into such a state of panic and fear that they're going to wish for a strong government everywhere. They won't call them totalitarian governments; they'll be military governments with the civil government still there but in a redundant mode. The military will call the shots -- the same way as a general does in Afghanistan, or previously in Iraq. The general in command takes over the scene. He makes the calls. So we have to imagine the same sort of thing within a country where you've got a military-based civil government, calling the shots, with the so-called elected government almost redundant. The militarybased government will provide the security for the people who are living in these countries who have yet to be affected by this type of onslaught. Ryan: Okay. What's the timing for this series of events, as best you know? Witness: As best I know... 18 months. It's definitely before 2012. Ryan: Okay. Witness: Or around 2012, sometime in that year. Ryan: Now somebody reading this will ask: Okay, so this is what they were discussing in 2005. How can you know that this plan is still on track, that things haven't changed radically, that they haven't abandoned it completely, that there hasn't been some big U-turn or epiphany here? What makes you so certain that this is still on track? Witness: Because of the events that have taken place since 2005. I think that's probably the most coherent way to look at it. We've already had a so-called financial collapse. It wasn't a collapse at all. It was a centralization of financial power. That's happened. It's certainly happened in the United States. 71 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

It's most certainly happened in the United Kingdom. It's most certainly happened in France and in Germany. So all the key players in the Western world centralized their financial assets. Ryan: Was this talked about in the meeting? Witness: Yes! It took up quite a large part of that meeting about how it was going to happen. Bear in mind where the meeting took place -- in the City of London. The City is the financial hub of the world, beyond any question. Ryan: So what you're saying then is that all of these things have happened according to their roll-out of this plan. Witness: That's right -- and all the preparations that need to be in place before this type of conflict takes place, that's already been put in place too. Ryan: Such as what? What are you referring to? Witness: Well you're talking about key figures taking over. Let's take a good example here and this is one that probably most people in the United Kingdom are unaware of, is that the British private security industry employs somewhere in the region of 500,000 people, which is far more than the UK military. The UK military is far smaller than that. The UK military is only a couple of hundred thousand. You're talking 500,000 people working in private security industry at the moment. Now prior to 2005, there was no regulation for that. There was no training for them. There was no unification of that force of people. And behind the scenes -- and this is something people should be able to be aware of, especially living in the UK -- there was the 2001 Private Security Industry Act. Now, that act meant that anybody working within the private sector had to undergo certain training. They also had to be police-checked. It makes a kind of civilian sense for people who are working in areas of such security responsibility should be police-checked. These police checks... everything gets found out. It's not just if you've committed a crime or not. Believe me, you can find out far much more about that individual through a police check. And then there's training. This training is all about managing conflict: what to do in times of conflict, how to manage it, how to control it. And then they're taught how to use controlled force. It extends from there. Ryan: So you're talking about handling problems of civil unrest and so on. This is all a setup for that. Witness: Indeed. You can take the protests that took place after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, here in the United Kingdom and in Western Europe and also in the States, but mostly in Western Europe. It was almost like a mass uprising against the war in Iraq. That won't be repeated again. It won't be. But the people in this industry need to be lawfully empowered in order to do their job because they'll still be working protecting assets, so they'll still be doing their job. And at the moment as we speak the 72 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Security Industry Association is seeking and receiving more powers on top of the powers that they've already been given. They've already been licensed to operate legally within the civilian environment. Now they're getting the additional police powers they need. It's not just for those in the British security industry; it's also those who are called "civilian enforcement officers": parking attendants, that sort of thing; community police officers; those who are aiding the police in order for them to do their job, they're getting powers commensurate with the responsibilities that's required to enable them to do the job effectively. So we're talking about powers of arrest; powers of detention; we're talking down those lines. And that's going to happen. Ryan: Is this happening in other Western countries as well, do you know? Witness: Well, it's already occurred in other Western countries, places like France and Germany, where you've got several police forces working together. You don't have one police force, as it were, that you could identify and say: Well, they're the police. They've got other agencies and they all carry similar powers. But those powers within the UK security industry just do not exist at the moment. They already exist in the United States and it's a United States model that's principally being used here. Ryan: Okay. Now, before you got into those details, we were talking about the timeline -- and I was asking you about what was your response to somebody who wanted to know how you could be so sure this was more or less on track, even though the meeting you attended was four years ago. Witness: Almost five years ago now. Ryan: Almost five. Yes. Witness: Yes. All I can say, Bill, is that just take on board what I've mentioned, and if it does ring any bells with anyone -- the veracity of what's said can then be checked by themselves if they wish to do so. Ryan: Yes. Witness: Not everything's hidden. They can't possibly hide everything, and then they can put the pieces of the puzzle together themselves and then they'll find out that it's quite credible. Ryan: Yes. I have to admit, it is very credible, which is very sobering. Right at the start of our conversation, you said that... this is my paraphrase... you said that this was a race against time from their point of view. Why? Witness: There's lots of things going to be happening within the next few years and it's all to do with power. Some of it, I don't fully understand myself, to be honest with you. But from what I do understand, there is quite a lot of power-brokering going on, and it's principally that those who have been in control of most of society for not just hundreds of years, but for thousands of years, wish that

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control to continue. And in order to do that, a sequence of events has to be manufactured in order for that to happen. What I've just described to you is probably the first part. So we're going to head into this war, then after that... and I can't give you a timescale for when this is going to happen... there will be a geophysical event taking place on Earth which is going to affect everybody. Now, by that time we will all have been through a nuclear and biological war. The Earth's population, if this happens, will be drastically reduced. When this geophysical event is going to take place, then those remaining will probably be halved again. And who survives that is going to determine who takes the world and its surviving population into the next era. So we are talking about a post-cataclysmic-event era. Who's going to be in charge? Who's going to be in control? So it's all about that. And that's why they're so desperate for these things to happen within a set timeframe. Otherwise they'll lose out. Ryan: Okay. Let me play devil's advocate here, and talk to me from your standpoint of having quite a lot of in-depth military experience and familiarity with military thinking. Why is the war and the establishment of the totalitarian government, and the atmosphere of fear, and so on and so forth, why is all that needed if there is going to be a major geophysical event, as you put it, which would further disrupt infrastructure, result in a lot of deaths, result in all manner of emergencies all over the world, earthquakes, tsunamis, goodness knows what. That alone would justify martial law in most countries and states of emergency and those same factions could easily justify assuming power in that kind of an emergency. Why is the war part of this scenario? I don't understand that. Witness: I think you have to look at it from a different point of view. After a cataclysmic event, there will be little or no structure. And if there's no structure, that means a structure has to be put back in place. A structure needs to be in place before that happens with some sort of certainty that it will survive what's going to come -- so that it can land on both feet the day after, and then remain in power and have the power that it's enjoyed previously. Ryan: So, it's a justification for strengthening the critical parts of the infrastructure actually in preparation for the cataclysm which in routine civilian times might not be so strong. This is what you're saying? Witness: Indeed. And I'm going into an area where I can only give subjective views the same as any other person could, but the feeling, and it's a very intuitive one, is that they've got to get their act together now. They've got to get their powerbase properly in place. And the only way they're going to do that is to create the circumstances for that to happen, i.e., a conflict. And we can all look back through history. Every war has achieved an aim. Besides the suffering, the human suffering that goes on, it's always achieved an aim. And the aim is always on the side of the victor. 74 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

So, we're looking at this totalitarian regime, which I believe is already totalitarian anyway. I mean, we do not have a democracy at all. Nobody's got a say. This has already been decided over and above anybody. We don't matter, as it were. We really don't matter. They matter, and their power matters, and that's the only thing that's being thought about it. And I believe if you tapped into the mindset of someone who operates in that type of way, you'd understand what they're going to do and why they're doing it and why they want to control the endgame and be in power at the end of it, intact, because this geophysical event is going to be survivable. Ryan: Do you have any indications when this is? This implies, from what you're saying, that they're kind of expecting something to happen in 2012. Is this a 2012 event? Witness: No, this isn't really centered around 21st December, 2012. I don't know what's going to happen on 21st December, 2012. I've got strong suspicions that it's going to be something else, maybe something nice for everybody. I really don't know. But certainly around that time we're going to be in a conflict that's going to take as long as it takes. But we're talking about some years after 2012 when this geophysical event is going to take place. I've judged that to be in my lifetime. Ryan: Okay. So let me feed this back to you, this roll-out of events you describe: the nuclear exchange and the ceasefire, and then the use of biological weapons... what you're saying is that this is going to result in such chaos actually that it will take a generation of humanity to rebuild all of that. And during all of that time there will have to be some kind of a heavy totalitarian infrastructure in order to cope with this on-going emergency and re-build. And then sometime in there, there's going to be this major geophysical event, but they've got to get started as soon as possible. Is that right? Witness: That's correct. That's right. Ryan: Do you think that they know when this is happening? Or do you think they think it's just happening "sometime"? Witness: Yes. I think they've got a good idea of when it's going to happen. I don't know when that is. However, I've got this very strong feeling that it's going to happen in my lifetime, say within 20 years. You could probably bring that back even further -- between now and ten years; between now and five years. Ryan: Hm. Witness: You know, I really don't know. I wish I did know. It's something that I'd love to know, but we've now entered into that period where this geophysical event is about to take place, when we consider the length of time that's passed since the last one which happened about 11,500 years ago, and it happens round about 11,500 years, cyclically. It's now due to happen again. Ryan: Yes. 75 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: To what degree it's going to affect the world, one can only imagine, and I'm sure there's contingency plans in place right now for that event to happen because I believe that is widely known within these circles. They understand it's going to happen. They have a certainty of knowledge that it's going to happen. They may have a timeframe, and it appears likely that they have. Again, it's one of these things -- it would be inconceivable if they didn't know. I mean, the best brains in the world will be working for them on this. You know? And they know all about it, and personally, I don't. Ryan: Was this talked about in your meeting at all? Witness: No, it wasn't openly spoken about. Let me summarize what was discussed at the meeting: Iran will be attacked, possibly within 18 months. China will come to the aid of Iran, to protect its own interests. Nuclear weapons will be used either by Iran or China, with Israel provoking the first use. Much of the Middle East will be laid to waste. Millions will die within a very short period of time. And for some reason this is here, and I can't tell you why: China will move forcibly into parts of Russia to extend ceasefire lines. Thereafter, biological weapons will be deployed against China. China will "catch a cold". And my own understanding is that there's some sort of malevolent ET alliance at work for 50 years by the UK and US and other Western powers, and this includes Japan. And, again, when we talk about a malevolent ET alliance that's in the context of black projects, and this is an exchange of technologies that's been going on for some considerable time. So there is an involvement there, and that involvement I can't fully explain myself. And I also understand that there are more humanitarian and altruistic ET entities working against this timeline and are somehow maintaining a precarious balance without taking any direct intervention themselves. And again, I can't fully explain that but it's a certain intuitive feeling that this is working and there's other aspects of my experience that's led me to make that statement -- but that's another story. So what we're talking about is the Western powers seeking a 'perfect war' -- doing so throughout the 20th century right up till the present day, because this timeline goes way back. So we're talking decades or hundreds of years of time where this timeline has been in use. And also I think it's quite important to associate the timeline with its other reference which I've heard several times now: it's called THE ANGLO-SAXON MISSION. I feel that's important to add because that may ring some bells with some people as I don't think it's been mentioned before. Ryan: I've heard that phrase before. I don't want to digress here, but the flag which I've got against that -- and actually which I'm really starting to understand and it's as chilling as it gets, from what you're saying -- that the reason why it's called The Anglo-Saxon Mission is because basically the plan is to wipe out the Chinese so that after the cataclysm and when things are rebuilt, it will be the AngloSaxons who are in a position to rebuild and inherit the new Earth, with no one else around. Is that right? 76 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: Whether that's right I really don't know, but I would agree with you. Through the 20th century at least, and even before into the 19th and 18th centuries, the history of this world has been predominantly run from the West and from the Northern region on the planet. Others have tried but failed. And it's safe to say that World War One and World War Two were manufactured wars. I'm quite sure of that. And they were used as stepping-stones to get to where they are now. Any historian will tell you that if that didn't happen, this wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't have had the United Nations; we wouldn't have had the United States of America becoming a superpower in such a short period of time. They became a superpower within four years of war. And they ended up with nuclear weapons. People, I feel, have got to bring this into their own personal agendas. The West becoming the predominant force in the world is there. It's beyond question. Ryan: Retrospectively looking back on it, you can see a sort of long-term strategy that extends over a number of generations even though one couldn't see the wood for the trees at the time. Witness: That's the nature of people -- really. You know, we just live our own lives with those of our families and those close to us and do the best we can. It's not very often that we stick our heads above the parapet and have a good look around to see what's really happening. We're not very good at doing that, I'm afraid. I'm a good example. I've been involved in so many things, I've just got my head down and just got on with what I was doing, ignoring what was going on, possibly subconsciously denying what was happening until I really had to say something about it. Ryan: Yes. Just on a personal note, it must be quite hard living with this personal experience that you've had of being party to these conversations and knowing that this isn't just some fantasy because you heard these people talking about this, laughing about it. Witness: Well, it was quite informal. I mean, they were very comfortable talking about this. How can I describe the people who I'm talking about better? The people who I'm talking about are people who exude power. They elicit fear. They demand obedience and by God do they get it! And by the way they talk they're dictating to the so-called elected governments that we've got in Parliament or in Washington or in Berlin or in Paris. These people exude that kind of power, and beyond that what can I say? I'm sure other people have come across characters like that in their lives. There's not a compassionate bone in their body. They do not resonate any spiritual warmth whatsoever. They're cold, they're calculating. To use a phrase that's common here, "butter wouldn't melt in their mouth". Ryan: A lot of people out there speculate that at some level, maybe not at the level of the people who you were meeting with in the room, but at some level, in this behind-the-scenes government that is orchestrating this entire plan, lies a non-human intelligence. 77 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

And one of the arguments for that is that it takes an enormous amount of long-term thinking, strategic cunning, to plan going over many generations, which is the result of an extremely high intelligence just to play this chess game on such an enormous scale. So some people, myself included, suggest that this must be a non-human intelligence that's behind this. Witness: Yes. And my perception is that this intelligence is incredibly logical, without any empathy, without any love, care, understanding or compassion. They're cold and calculating and logical beyond any logic that we could muster normally. They go well beyond that -- they're such supremely intelligent people. These are people who can produce answers to really difficult questions without blinking an eye. They are very, very bright people, but bright only in the sense that their logic is extraordinary. Ryan: What can ordinary people do? How should they react? How should they think? Do you personally feel that this is inevitable? Do you think we're all doomed in some way? Witness: No, absolutely not. I've often thought about this, Bill, and this of course is a personal view: We will endure. But to endure, from one person to the next, is not to work for them anymore. It's to stop working for them. It's not to react violently against them because they'll win. They would love that to happen, then it gives them an excuse. They breed on fear and violence -- the reaction from fear. That would be like bees to honey for them. They would love that to happen. What's needed is non-violent reaction: simply just not doing the job for them any more. To give a comparison, Bill. There was a man who history has largely ignored. He was a Frenchman, by the name of Jean Jaurès. It's always surprised me why this incredible character has never entered the history books. He's quite well known in France in some circles, but not widely known. He predicted the First World War happening. He wanted the International Workers' Movement to not comply with the royal families and aristocracy, and when you read about him you'll find this out yourself. Just a couple of months before the outbreak, when the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand took place in Serbia, Jaurès was assassinated in a French café. They killed him. He was shot dead, and with him went that movement. Prior to World War One, he saw the writing on the wall. He saw the aristocracies and the royal families of Europe pitting themselves against one another, in a big battle. He knew that France and Germany, the United Kingdom were all industrialized nations. He further realized that being industrialized, the next war will be an industrial war where millions of people might be killed. He formed a movement which some have termed as communist. It was the International Workers' Movement, and it's got nothing to do with politics. His idea was for the ordinary person not to do anything, not to go to war, just stay at home and they wouldn't have the war they wanted. I personally believe that if non-violence is adopted and people become more awake to what's happening, then these people very, very quickly lose the power that they've got. They feed on power. They feed on fear. So if you take these elements away from them they become powerless. They need us to do what they're doing. They can't do it on their own even though they'll be damn dangerous in any event, but they can't do it all on their own. 78 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

And that would be my message is just to wake up a bit, see what's happening about us, put our heads above the parapet and without fearing to do that, without feeling afraid, take a deep breath, have a look around, see what's happening, and then people will soon realize: Oh yeah. Okay. This is where we're gonna go. This is where we're heading and there's not much I can do about it. But they can! As I've said, it's not to react violently. And if people are in positions where these people need them, just don't work for them. Just stop working for them. Take your labor away because they need the troops who are going to do this work. We're not just talking about people in the military. We're talking about every civilian member in all the populations right across the globe. Just say: No, because this is not us. This is not what we want to do. And it's making that choice. It sounds ridiculously simple. I think the execution of it is that simple and it's well within our power as human beings, conscious living, breathing, human beings who have a shared compassion for one another to do that. Because if we don't, they'll carry on and then they'll realize their endgame. Ryan: Do you think, from your own military experience, that there are enough people in the military who are saying: You know what? I didn't sign up for this. I'm not going to do this. Or do you think that they'll buy into all the justifications that are being set up at the moment? Witness: Well, by and large the Western military is not a conscripted army. It's a professional army, and it prides itself on its professionalism. It prides itself on acting on behalf of the people who elected the government who sent them out to do the job that they're doing. It's a very difficult question to answer. And of course, these troops are superbly trained and they believe, they wholly believe, as I did when I was in the military, that you're doing the job for all the right reasons. If it became clear to people who are in such professions -- this is not just the military; we're talking about the emergency services, the police, all those who've made their way into the security industry, we're talking about all these people. If enough voices were heard, then those in the military who have not achieved any significant rank, who have no particular stake in the game, will then wake up themselves just as soon as anybody else. But it's got to be borne in mind that the Western powers have professional military services, and it's a difficult thing to do to make it clear and let these guys and girls know that they're not fighting the right people. Ryan: Sure. Let me ask a different question. Was there reference to "safe or safer places to be"? Physically, I mean. Witness: No. None at all. Ryan: Nothing like the southern hemisphere is okay, the northern hemisphere is going to be a problem? Nothing like that? Witness: No, not at that meeting. That wasn't mentioned at all. 79 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Ryan: Okay. Another question I'd like to ask you, and it's a fascinating one to debate among people who are tuned in to this whole area, is a personal one: why do you feel that the benevolent ETs, and I'm sure that they exist, why do you think that they don't step in to say: Okay, guys, normally we're hands-off, but this is getting serious here and we're not going to allow this to happen. Is that possible? Why do they maintain such a distance? Witness: Well, first things first. "These benevolent ETs" -- I don't actually like calling them "ETs"... I believe that these people are us and we are them. Ryan: Yes. Witness: They've been around for a lot longer than the regime that's in power at the moment. This present regime, this power-based regime, some have called them reptilians, and I've got no problem at all calling them that because that's exactly what they're like -- totally cold-hearted. They've been around much, much longer and they're the ones who have really made humanity what it is today. Interventions? I believe they've been intervening in the best ways that they can. But we're talking about very spiritually evolved beings, as the human race is very spiritually evolved -- maybe that's why we come back here so often, back to this planet. But for these people who are us and we are them, as I mentioned, they don't see time the same way that we understand time here within the physical world. For them, 11,500 years ago was a blink of an eye. It was nothing, and they already know what the endgame is going to be. They believe, as I believe, that this regime that's in power at the moment who wish this total dominance over the Earth and everything that's in it, are not going to win. They're having their time now and their time is about to end. Ryan: On what basis do you feel that? This is very important for people reading this transcript because some people will be feeling numbed and shocked at the information that you've presented, thinking: Oh God, we're really stitched up here. Witness: Yes, I think if you take it from the purely physical point of view. It doesn't mean that we've all got suicidal minds or something like that. We all want our lives; we all cherish our lives; everybody does. We love our lives and we want to experience them fully in all ways, in the best way we possibly can. We're currently being prevented from doing so because of this regime, which is based in fear; it's all about fear. And the greatest fear that we've got physically is fear of death, and that's part of the greatest power that they've got over us, is this type of fear, this anxiety that they can raise or lower -which they're doing all the time. I can't think of a moment when this hasn't happened, when this fear doesn't come out and then we react to it the way that we do. It seems perfectly natural. But what happens when we don't, stop feeling this and say: Well, it's only fear. We can get over this, then that's tapping into who we really are. 80 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

I don't yet believe there are enough people around at the moment who know who they are. They define themselves by their own physical existence, which is all fear-based, and it's cyclical, and they just can't get out of it. And obviously they need to find their way out of it. I believe, personally, that come this shift -- I call it a shift because that's what I believe is going to happen; the Earth's crust is going to shift round about 30 degrees, about 1700 to 2000 miles southwards, and it will cause a huge upheaval, effects of which will last for a very long time to come. But the human race isn't going to die off. We're still going to be here. It's who we are at the end of that -- is where my mind is. And as for this regime, that's where their mind is. This is why they're doing what they're doing because they want to be in control at the end of it. Now, if we're talking about intervention, this is when there will be an intervention by the "benevolent ETs." The people who are really us, this is when it may happen, but I don't know. I've got a strong intuitive feeling it will, but at the moment the situation that we have right now is not conducive for that type of intervention. Not right now. They don't feel it's the right time. And in any event, physical life is only a very, very small part of who we really are, so how much importance do you place on that, knowing that when you walk from this door into the next door, you're back home anyway? So all that's got to be taken into consideration, and I'm sure there's people out there who could articulate this far better than I'm articulating this right now. I can only articulate this from a very personal point of view and that's what I feel intuitively might happen. And I say might knowing full well that I can be certain within my own self that that sort of thing will happen, and it's just the pain that we have to go through of reaching that point where this regime will no longer have the power that they've got. People wakening up, finding out what's going on around them and really having a good look, and raising their conscious levels as they've never done before, and then everything will click into place quite quickly. And when it does, the power that these people have will just fall off them like a towel, you know, just fall right off them, and they'll be exposed for what they are. Ryan: That's a very inspiring thought. Do you feel personally that... Let me specify a number of alternatives: That the whole war might not happen at all; that the whole thing will just fall apart? Or that all of this will fall apart after the war but before the cataclysm? Or that all of this will fall apart after the cataclysm and that the Meek will inherit the Earth, let's say? Witness: Yes. This is an extremely good question. Let's consider two things: the first thing is the sheer determination on the part of this regime, for want of a better word, the sheer determination that they have to have this done. They're desperate. They're going full-out for this to happen. They're creating the scenarios, the in, the out. It's relentless; it's non-stop; there's no breathing space. And when there is breathing space, I mean, when people start to relax about things, something else will pop up to keep us within that grip of fear that they've generated. That is a hugely powerful force that they have, massively powerful, and it should never be underestimated. It's the sort of thing that drives good, honest people around the bend, putting people 81 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

early into their graves through stress and anxiety. It's coming away from that and seeing it for what it is. If there's enough people who can raise the levels of awareness and just see what's happening, then everybody else will bring their heads up. I think it only needs one or two people to put their head up and just say: Yep. All's clear, and everybody else will come up. Then you'll see them all around the world, in various countries, just a new feeling, a better feeling than what we've had before, and that's all about individuals empowering themselves by acknowledging who they really are. And it's nothing mystical. It's nothing deeply cultish or anything like that. It's got very little to do with religion. It's all about the human spirit and the consciousness which we live through and that we all share and knowing that consciousness is undoubtedly shared by all of us -- but is presently suppressed. And we have to get past those suppressive forces in order to realize who we are. When that happens -all else will follow quite naturally and that regime, dangerous as they are -- I can't emphasize this too much: These are damn dangerous people, extremely dangerous -- their power will go. Ryan: This is extremely close to what David Icke talks about. It's extremely close to what Dr. Bill Deagle talks about, and to what we've talked about a number of times. Witness: Yes. Ryan: That there's a rise in consciousness going on on the planet, but they're desperately trying to close the lid and to accelerate their own plans so that they can put in place the iron fist of control. Things may get worse before they get better, but they're not going to win out in the end because consciousness transcends all the force and all the military might and all the strategic planning that they could put into place. And it's a question of that collective consciousness continuing to expand, as it seems to be. And this interview here that we're doing needs to play a part in that. Because it's not about scaring people witless and having them all hide in bunkers with emergency food. It's actually about saying: Listen, it doesn't have to be like this if we can be as big as we are, and as brave as we can be, and as strong as we can be, and realize who we really are. And if enough of us do that, then this just isn't going to roll out like that. Witness: That's right. I'm coming out saying exactly this. I realize I'm not saying anything that's unique at all, but as you're indicating, it's got to be repeated. People have got to be aware that there's hope, and things need not be the way they are. They never needed to be the way they are. It can be far, far better. It's getting over the fear; it's this fear that people need to get over. We don't have to be psychiatrists or psychologists or anything like that -- they only deal with the mind. We don't have to be religious leaders or great spiritual thinkers to be aware of this, because we all have it within us. It's inherent within us. So it's a matter of looking into oneself and then becoming comfortable with who you are; then you'll have a knowing of what's going on and know that it's wrong. And everybody else... it will just spread. 82 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Even those who've been indoctrinated into this regime of fear will not be able to resist it because to do so is just resisting themselves and who they really are. And it's a wonderful thing; it's what this universe is all about and what this whole experience is all about. And it will make these periods, these last so many thousands of years, be just... not even a bad memory... just like: Hm! Well, we've learnt from that. Okay? And we'll make sure that doesn't happen again, and that these kind of characters who can produce this kind of fear, you know, don't ever get a power base here again. So, yes, I think those days are coming and if it does happen in time -- and 'time' is one of those words that you use very carefully because this regime is very time-based, where the human consciousness isn't really concerned with time so much, but they definitely are because of the physical nature of the Earth. It does things at certain times. You know, we have seasons: spring, summer, autumn, winter. The shift that's coming is just like another season. What's going to happen is geophysical change; it's another season, and a very aware humanity could most possibly take this in their stride and come out the other end of it very well indeed. I know you mentioned about safe places for people to go. I really don't know. But from a personal point of view, I know where I should be, and where I should be is where I am right now. Whether it's safe or not is immaterial; it's where I should be right now, and I feel comfortable with that. Ryan: Yes. When people ask us that question about where they should be, we always reflect it back and point out that the answer is going to be different for every individual, based upon things that no one else apart from them can really know. Some people may need to stay put; some people may need to travel, but the reason for that might be because they've got somebody to meet and something to do in some other location. It really depends on so many factors, not just a question of: what's objectively safe and where should we hide? It's got more to do with: how can we best deploy all of the abilities that we have here and now to do whatever it is that we're here to do? And that's going to be individual to everybody. Witness: Absolutely. It is. I think the more aware that people become, the fear factor goes. We don't live in that fear, so what you previously feared may no longer be a fear for that individual or for that group of people, for that matter. It just won't be there. That's not to say there won't be any concerns, there won't be any pain or things like that; of course there will. But on top of all that, the fears that we currently experience, the physical fears of the uncertainties and the unpredictable nature of things, will be gone -- they'll just go. We'll be left being the people who we are, and I think the human race as a whole is pretty damn wonderful. Ryan: Yes. That's a wonderful thing for people to take with them, something that we've often mentioned. There's a wonderful movie. It goes back to 1984, a Jeff Bridges movie called Starman. The starman is an alien visitor who's here for peaceful purposes, trying to understand the human race because he's got caught up in a strange situation. And he's trying to get back home. Towards the end of the movie he says: Would you like to know what I find beautiful about your species? You are at your best when things are at their worst. 83 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

I've never forgotten that line. It's got to do the with the fact that what's marvelous about the human race is the ability to transcend problems and reach deep within themselves to produce the very best out of themselves in the worst situations. And of course, in the military that kind of situation is almost a tradition, that under extraordinary pressure you have people behaving with incredible heroism, and it's that response to pressure that makes us wonderful. Witness: Yes, it's more noticeable in the military because that gets reported out. Human consciousness and how we exist through this physical world is extremely resilient. A good point to consider is that we may think sometimes we've got a deadlock in ethical thinking about some things, but we don't really. Things simply differ from one person to the next which I think is another wonderful thing because it can keep conversations going for ever and ever, which is fantastic. The dialog we have helps us to understand ourselves so much better. But it transcends deadlock, I think. It goes beyond that. It goes beyond what we know to be ethically right and so forth. It takes it to a different level when these things happen, when our resilience is tested to this extreme. We're all capable of doing very wonderful things and it looks likely, very likely, that we're on the cusp of where that resilience is going to be tested to the extreme. I'm going to emphasize again that we're playing against very dangerous people, extremely dangerous people, incredibly powerful people. And I know from my own experience that not many people have had first-hand experience with that type of power and how it exudes, and how it affects one's person... it can make you very, very sick, make you ill to the point of breakdown. Or you join in with them, become subservient and be sycophantic to everything that they want to do, because the people who do work for them and do their bidding -- and there's quite a large number of them -- are incredibly obedient and incredibly servile. They're not what you call "free spirits" at all. You know, they've been taken in, taken in by them. Maybe that's something that people should begin to be aware of, of the kind of power that they hold at the moment, and I don't think that's been fully grasped yet. People are trying to see in between the margins to find out what's going on and getting snippets of information, and those snippets are going to be very, very important. But to act against them in any way, it can be quite disastrous. I've had that experience and I think many, many other people have too. So this is maybe why we should tell exactly who they are, should announce ourselves and be fearless about it. It's because of that fear... that's at the base of all that still exists. Ryan: Something that we spoke about earlier when we had a conversation a few days ago was there's a supreme arrogance in these people, which you've experienced at first-hand, which George Green described when we first met and talked to him about a year and three-quarters ago. He said: They think they've won. They're not worried about anything any more. They're not trying to silence all the alternative media. Not really, you know. It's not going to make any difference. What difference is a couple of voices going to make? The plan's still going to roll out. It's not going to make any difference at all, they believe, what you or I might say.

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Witness: Well I go along with what George Green said. He's painted a far better picture than I could, because that's exactly what it's like. They are incredibly arrogant. Along with their other attributes that they have, there is that arrogance there. It's quite tangible. Yes. And they're just comfortable about what they're doing, totally comfortable. They're not hiding around and sneaking about. I mean, these are quite open people, some of them, public figures. Ryan: Okay. Now, is there anything that we missed? Is there anything that you wanted to say but didn't have a chance to fully enlarge on? Is there anything you want to add that I haven't even asked you about? Witness: There's still such a story to tell, I think, because I'm very aware that people need to see a decent level of credibility in what I've been describing to you, and I guess that's always a difficulty. But all I can really say is I've been aware of this timeline since the early '70s, too young to understand what it was at the time. In fact it seemed to me quite an exciting thing that was going on, and that was the first time I ever heard of the existence of the "Anglo Saxon Mission." And details of what I know, I feel if I started mentioning names in particular and what was mentioned and where I was at the time, might compromise the Official Secrets Act, which I'm still party to in so many aspects. I say the military. Where it's in a civilian environment, then no; I feel happy talking about that. I wish there was a way that I could describe other events, which you're aware of, and do so in a manner that would allow people to understand me far better than I've explained here. Then they'd see exactly where I'm coming from, where I've been, and what I've been through. I feel that then people could rationalize what's been said far better. But I do feel that what's been said so far is enough for people, if they so wish, to have a look themselves and uncover a few stones. And if anything of significance does come out of it which other people can corroborate, that would be fantastic. That would be good, because evidence... You know, I know it's so crucial to do things like this, and there's no smoking gun as such. There's only one person reporting something that happened five years ago, principally, but there is a much, much larger story around that which you are aware of, and we need to be extremely careful about where we go with that. Ryan: There are many people, of course, who do have access to the same information you do. This is something that is known by thousands of people in finance and the military and politics. It's widely known. It's a very small proportion of the world's population, but it's still very widely known. Witness: Absolutely. Yes. Ryan: And something that we've always encouraged, and we say it again here, is that we encourage anyone who has experienced it first-hand or even at second-hand, any aspect of this, to please step forward and know that there's safety in numbers. Know that the more people who break ranks and have the courage that you have to speak out, the more will be heard, the more will be understood, and the whole thing will be like a gradually rolling snowball. The snowball is rolling. It's quite small, but it is rolling. 85 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Witness: Oh, it is. It is. There'll come a time where names will be named if there's enough public support, and we will demand answers from those people. So when enough fruit from the tree of evidence comes off, then these people can be properly challenged, and then we can see a far different story, you know, emerge from the one that people like myself are giving you. It'll become more real, far more real. We can do that. We can take people to task. Ryan: Okay. All right. This is very, very important. I want to close by saying: thank you for your courage, and thank you for your spirit. Witness: Thank you very much, too, Bill.

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INTERVIEW WITH SVALI: EX ILLUMINATI MEMBER Of all ex Illuminati members, there is none whose case has been more publicized than Svali. Svali used to be a programmer and trainer in the cult of the Illuminati. Both she and her entire family were involved in the cult group until several years ago, when they finally broke free. She has been a consultant to an on-line survivors group that helps people dealing with issues related to cult programming and ritual abuse. Svali is now a writer and a registered nurse and has self-published a book on breaking free of cult programming, which several experts in the field have said has "invaluable information" for the survivor of ritual abuse. She is now married to her second husband and has two children. The below is a detailed list of questions which was sent to Svali by HJ Springer one of the first individuals to interview her about her experience whilst working for the Illuminati. At the time, HJ Springer was the Chief Editor CentrExNews.com which had been running a series 'The Illuminati: How the Cult Programs People'. Correspondence with Svali took place in the form of an email interview, Question: I would think that California would be one of the major 'turfs' of the Illuminati, and I'm thinking specifically Hollywood. What's your inside on this, in regards to film making, symbology, subliminals, the whole scene in general? Svali: Oh, boy, do you have a few hours? I'll try to be brief. The Illuminati believe that to control the media is to control the public. This is one of their stated agendas. Remember, finances, media, law, government and education are the areas they targeted as being the best to dominate society. How do they do this? They don't go to a film producer and say, "Oh, by the way, we're Illuminati members and we want you to make a movie that promotes our agenda". (Remember, they aren't stupid, either). Instead, they will form a small investment corporation that funds movies with ideas that they like. They quietly hire actors and producers and directors and scripts, but they never mention their affiliation publicly or why they are doing this. Money talks, and especially in Hollywood. If you have money, you can get about anything made, and they know this. They can also channel money into advertising campaigns, etc. for their films (how many Christian films have had major ad campaigns in the past twenty years? Very few. How many occult movies have? I rest my case). This has been a slow, subtle process because they are patient. They have been working behind the scenes for hundreds of years, and they know that the public is slow to accept new ideas, that it has to be done gradually. (They call it leading in the "sheep" which is one of their terms for the "unenlightened"). And it has been. The number of occult films that has come out in the past ten years alone should make anyone pause and think. Why so many films with this theme? Why the desensitization of America's youth to the occult and magic? Just look at Saturday morning cartoons. I don't allow my children to watch them, except for "animaniacs" and Bugs Bunny at times. Instead, we rent old classics with Audrey Hepburn and John 87 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Wayne. I can send you some articles that did an excellent job of investigating Walt Disney (he was an Illuminist, and Fantasia was used to program children). Some films that blatantly portray the Illuminist agenda: The Matrix. You could have peeled me off the ceiling when I saw that one. The references to conditioning and the core were so blatant, it wasn't funny. Fight Club: I love Brad Pitt and Ed Norton, and this film is a nod at the covert military buildup going on that the average person doesn't realize. Also, Ed is dissociative in the film, as Pitt's character takes over (notice that the cult-creating military figure is the "stronger" one in the story?). The Labyrinth: I haven't seen this, but my husband did, and everything he mentioned is pure Illuminati programming stories used with children. Any movies with an occult viewpoint, or that show supernatural psychic phenomena, astral travel, or contact with the spirit world are guaranteed to be part of this agenda. I don't watch them, myself. Saw enough of the real thing to last me this lifetime. The sensationalization of rituals and other occult insignia on television is another example. Ghost stories. Witch stories. Children's books about Wizards and their training that are extremely popular. Oh, yes, Starship Trooper. This one had so many cult symbols (the Illumnists have a strong Aryan ideology going, too) that I almost laughed outright when I saw it. I counted at least 100 in it. Someone had fun going tongue-in-cheek with the Illuminist agenda in that one. Many fine actors and actresses are being used in films funded by these people. Some may know the agenda, most probably do not, as long as they receive a pay check. Some are also Illuminists as well, although I don't know who is. I do know a few, but I don't want to risk a libel suit here. Anyway, I was too busy training and going to meetings and learning the effects of drugs on people to pay much attention to that part of the group when I was in it, sorry, I don't have lots of famous names in my memories. I lived a very relatively boring life as a teacher and head trainer, and we rarely discussed the media except the fact that it, too, was another tool to bring in "The New Order", which is the motivation for all Illuminists. I want to address another misconception. That is, the one that the Illuminists know that they are evil. When I was in the group, I and those around me were ideologically committed to the agenda as being GOOD. I thought I was helping others reach their full potential when I was a trainer. I believed that after years of sweat and hard work, that my intelligence won out, and that I made an excellent leader. I fought Jonathan and others on the council when I thought they were unfair, and stood up for the people beneath me. Others did the same. They honestly think they are doing a GOOD thing, and if you told them it was wrong, or evil, they would look confused. It took a LOT of therapy and deprogramming myself, doing reality checks with noncult people to realize that it was all a lie. I was devastated. I had dedicated my life to helping others bring in the glorious new order, and then found out it was EVIL and abusive. I went through a period of intense grieving/mourning over this. Most Illuminists I knew weren't evil, they were deceived. Only the top leadership perhaps were consciously being hurtful.

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Question: Svali, a very important question I'm sure all our readers are asking themselves is, who heads the Illuminati? Who is the top of the pyramid? Svali: Hooboy! Where do I start with this? First, it depends on what level. I would like to draw up a little map of the Illuminati from my memories (which are NOT FOND) of being part of this group. I will also try to fill in some names, but I want to be cautious. If I name too many names, I could draw some nasty fire from people in the group. Here it goes: I will be doing an upside down pyramid, to show the Illuminati structure, NOT to trigger people (I know the Illuminati use lots of pyramids) but because this is how they have their hierarchy set up: Level One: Local level (anytown, USA) SISTER GROUP There will be between ten and thirty sister groups in most metropolitan areas, dependent on the size of the city. The larger the city, the more sister groups. There are Illuminati groups in EVERY major city in the US and Europe. This first level is what is known as the "anarchical" or "low level". It is what most people reporting ritual abuse discuss: a high priest and priestess preside over each group, which also contains a group of two to four trainers, and others with jobs. The sister groups unite on rare occasions, are aware of each other, but each one is fairly independent, and reports only to their leadership council. Level Two: Metropolitan leadership council This is what the local leadership council over these groups will look like. It will also cover scattered groups in outlying rural areas. Baalim (head) (1), assistants to the head (2) administrators over finances and day to day happenings (4), head trainers (oversee and teach other trainers) (6). The total: 13 members The Baalim and his two assistants report to: REGIONAL LEADERSHIP COUNCIL The United States has been divided into seven different regions geographically. Each region has a 13 member leadership council that coordinates with the local leadership councils (are you getting the idea by now? The Illuminati are set up a lot like "Amway" or any other well-organized business enterprise with a flowchart of accountability for each member). This council will look something like this: Head of council (1), Military (2 seats), Spiritual (2 seats), Scholarship (2 seats), Finances (2 seats), Training (2 seats), Sciences (2 seats). Total: 13 members 89 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

The regional councils will represent the different areas of interest and knowledge that the Illuminati pursue. The membership will change over time as members are promoted or demoted. The seven regional councils each have a leader as noted above, who reports to the: National Council (The nations in Europe also have national councils, Mexico and Canada do as well, as does the Soviet Republic and China). The national council will look much like the one above, with this difference; these are influential bankers with OLD money such as: The Rockefellers, the Mellon family, the Carnegie family, the Rothschild family etc. I know I shouldn't name names, but I will. The heads of the National councils report to: The Supreme World Council. This council is already set up as a prototype of the one that will rule when the NWO comes into being. It meets on a regular basis to discuss finances, direction, policy, etc. and to problem-solve difficulties that come up. Once again, these leaders are heads in the financial world, OLD banking money. The Rothschild family in England, and in France, have ruling seats. A descendant of the Hapsburg dynasty has a generational seat. A descendant of the ruling families of England and France have a generational seat. The Rockefeller family in the US holds a seat. This is one reason that the Illuminati have been pretty "untouchable" over the years. The ruling members are very, very, very wealthy and powerful. I hope this information is helpful. How do I know this? I was on a local leadership council (a head trainer), but I talked to those on regional. Also, every Illuminati child is taught who their "leaders" are, and told to take an oath of allegiance to them and the "New Order to come". Question: To what degree is the European royalty involved, what is their real pecking order and power structure and what is their U.S.-U.K. relationship in terms of financial/political/cult power. Is the Monarchy still running the show? Svali: This is hard to answer, but I'll try. The Illuminati leadership state that they are descended from royal bloodlines, as well as unbroken occult heritage. See, there were two definitions of "royalty" used. Open royalty that is currently seen now, and "hidden royalty" of royal lineage and extreme occult power. Sometimes the two were concurrent, such as with the Prince of Wales. I never thought of which country/line held the most power, since I was just a peon busily doing my job. But my understanding was: •

The Hanoverian / Hapsburg descendants rule in Germany over the Bruderheist.

•

They are considered one of the strongest lines for occult as well.

•

The British line is just under them, with the royal family. 90 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

• Definitely, they rule the UK branch under the Rothschilds in the occult realm, even though parliament rules the country openly. In France, again, descendants of the royal families are also in power in the occult realm, but the French Rothschilds hold the reigns over all or them. The U.S. is considered lower, and younger, than the European branches. This is why the children of leaders are ALWAYS sent to Europe for part of their training; the education is considered better and the U.S. families want to renew their affiliation with the european forebears. Germany, France, and the UK form a triumvirate that rules in the European cult. The USSR is considered important, and has the strongest military groups. The USSR has been promised fourth position in the New World Order, BEFORE the role the U.S. would have, because the USSR has been more helpful and cooperative over the years with furthering the agenda. The descendants of the former ruling families there are also involved in the occult leadership, along with the newer ones. There is no marxism in the cult. China will be ranked after the USSR, then the U.S.. But a lot of the current U.S. leadership will be in Europe when the change occurs, and many have homes there. They will be "changing nationalities" overnight, as it were. This is the little that I do remember. Wish I had been a better student of this stuff, but I was too busy trying to stay alive when I was in it. Question: Svali, one of the more important points, which I am sure a lot of readers would like to know more about, is, what is the Illuminati /Freemason connection, as far as you are aware of, given your previous position in the Illuminati? Was - and is - there an infiltration of the Masonic Order? Svali: The Freemasons and the Illuminati are hand in glove. I don't care if this steps on any toes, it's a fact. The masonic temple at Alexandria, Virginia (the city itself was named after Alexandria, Egypt, and is a hotbed of Illuminati activity) is a center in the Washington, DC area for Illuminati scholarship and teaching. I was taken there at intervals for testing, to step up a level, for scholarship, and high ceremonies. The leaders in this masonic group were also Illuminists. This has been true of every large city I have lived in. The top Freemasons were also top Illuminists. My maternal grandparents were both high ranking Masons in the city of Pittsburgh, Pa. (president of the Eastern Star and 33rd degree Mason) and they both were also leaders in the Illuminati in that area. Are all Masons Illuminati? No, especially at the lower levels, I believe they know nothing of the practices that occur in the middle of the night in the larger temples. Many are probably fine businessmen and Christians. But I have never known a 32 degree or above who wasn't Illuminati, and the group helped create Freemasonry as a "front" for their activities. Question: What exactly is the meaning of the pyramid on the back of the $1 U.S. note? I'm talking about the pyramid with the capstone detached and hovering above the rest of the pyramid, containing the 'All-Seeing-Eye'. Is this a Masonic or Illuminati symbol? 91 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Svali: The pyramid and the "eye of Horus" on the back of the dollar bill are Illuminati symbology. The pyramid is an ancient form based on the holyness of the number 3 to the ancient mystery religions (it, not 6, is considered the most spiritual number), and a pyramid was a structure used specifically to call up the demonic, or occult, a point of psychic activity. The eye is the all seeing eye of Horus (remember the emphasis on Egyptian magical religious practices? The book of the undead, etc.?) and the fact that no one can escape his magical reach. This eye is considered a demonic eye in the group, or the eye of the deity, and in Illuminati mythology is either open or closed, depending upon the spiritual time of year and the state of the person psychically. Young children are given "psychic surgery" where the eye is placed inside, and they are told that Horus will snatch their soul if they ever try to leave, or if they tell, or that the eye will explode. The symbol on the dollar is reinforcement for every Illuminati child who sees one, and the reminder that they are being watched. The saying on the dollar, 'Novus Ordo Seclorum' also means "bringing in the new order", which is the Illuminati stated agenda. Just think, in the early 1800's, our forefathers already were looking forward to when the new order would be ushered in. Have I mentioned that this is a patient, forward looking group of intellectuals? That Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, FDR, and others were Illuminati leaders? Our country may have been founded on freedom from taxation, but it was also founded on the New World Order just as surely. Question: How far back in time does the concept / cult of the Illuminati go? It seems to me that they have been around quite some time, possibly since antiquity, guiding, steering and using humanity for their own purposes, operating under different names? Can you elaborate? Svali: I was taught that the Illuminati had its roots in the ancient practices that reach into the beginning of recorded time; that the Babylonians on the plains created ziggurats to their deities, whom the Illuminati worship. They were proud of the fact that it was supposedly an unbroken occult line from then until now. The names changed, the basic group was the same. The ancient mystery religions of Egypt, heart of dark magic were another forerunner, with adherents of Set, Osiris, Horus and Ra; and the Illuminists also believe their bloodlines have come down from the ancient kings of Egypt. It's hard for me to know how much was cult propaganda, and how much truth is in the claims. The Templar Knights were definitely a forerunner during medieval times, as well as the Rosicrucians and ancient celts and druids (you know, the ones who built Stonehenge). Question: I’ve received some Neo-Nazi-white power-invitations through e-mail. I’ve read some of the stuff and (to put it short) they argue with considerable elegance - backed up with historical "facts"that the Illuminati, of course, is a Jewish Conspiracy, and that Hitler was "on to them", and we all know what happened next. My simple question: Is the Illuminati a JEWISH conspiracy? Svali: My answer: absolutely not. In fact, Hitler and his people (especially Himmler and Goebbels) were top Illuminists. The Illuminati are racist in the extreme, and as a child, I was forced to play "concentration camp" both on my farm in Virginia, and also in Europe in isolated camps in Germany. 92 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

The Jews historically fought against the occult. See Deuteronomy and the Old Testament for how God through the Jewish people tried to cleanse the land of the occult groups that were operating there, such as those who worshipped Baal, Ashtarte, and other Canaanite and Babylonian gods. Since the Illuminati trace their roots to these ancient fertility deities, they also have an in-ground antithesis to the Jewish race. Also, I would never trust literature sent to me by Neo-Nazi or any extremist hate groups, since they are founded on the tenets of racism, egalitarianism, the concept of a master race, and other things that are also espoused strongly by the Illuminati and many other occult groups. Simply put, this group was lying to you, and counting on your not knowing that Nazism was founded by German Illuminists. Question: The dream of someone wanting to rule the world is nothing new, obviously. History is littered with failed attempts to conquer the world and subjugate the population. How old is the dream for the ’NEW WORLD ORDER’ per se, by the Illuminati? Svali: The Illuminati themselves teach that they have been around for centuries and centuries, even during Roman times, and that Alexander the Great was one of their "prototypes" in the ancient world, as was Hitler in modern times. But the Illuminati as we know it today was formed in the 17th century (out of Catholic roots, ie. the Knights Templar and Roscicrucianism). The idea of a modern ’One World Order’ became popular in the 1700’s with the ideas of Weishaupt and others, and they have been working towards this goal since the mid 18th century. Question: Did the Illuminati manipulate societies throughout history, such a the Egyptian, Roman, British empire, etc. How far back does the history of the Illuminati stretch and were they always known as the Illuminati, or did they at times operate under different covers with the same goals? Svali: The Illuminati SAY they date back to ancient Babylon on the Fields of Shinar around 3,900 B.C, give or take. But this is probably cult programming and boasting. They state that they are founded on the occult base of all ancient mystery religions and occult practices. But they actually seem to be descended from the Knights Templar during the medieval ages, and the Rosicrucian’s who were also founded back then. I myself have trouble knowing how much of the "cult history" I was taught as a child by my scholarship teachers was merely programming, and how much is accurate truth, so I cannot really be an objective source of information. Like any group, they tend to want to "idealize" their roots. Question: Being as intelligent as they are, the Illuminati must know that empires and societies throughout history only lasted about 200 years, on average. Is this a natural life cycle, or was that duration and final downfall of empires coordinated? In other words, was the Illuminati responsible for failed empires? Did they purposely destroy societies and create new ones with the intention of securing a tighter grip on future governments? Svali: During historical ’’set ups’’ that I saw as a child, used to teach the history of the group, supposedly behind the throne of all ancient and modern monarchies were Illuminist advisors and financing. They CLAIM to have manipulated history for the past 2,000 years. But I also believe that

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people have free choice, and that no one person or group can truly take into account the unpredictable: human nature and how they will respond. I don’t really believe they did all that they have claimed to. At the same time, in the last 200 years, they have certainly had a profound influence at the international and governmental level, based on what I saw and heard when in the group. Question: Svali, you said Illuminists are working hard for those goals and looking forward to the final implementation of the ’glorious New Order’, or world government, so that they can take part and be leaders in that society. At what point will the Illuminati be satisfied with their achievements, and what is their vision of that ’glorious New Order’? What shape, form or system will it have, what political infrastructure? Dictatorial, communist, democratic? Will there be an end to their struggle for global control? Svali: I was taught that during the coming "Order" or Government, that it would at first be a heavily dictatorial and military government. This is why there is extensive training of covert military forces in all ranks, to implement this policy. Why? Because not everyone will welcome their ’’enlightened’’ rule, and there will be those who oppose them. Their army is being trained in crowd control techniques and camps will be set up to send dissenters to. Think of Hitler’s Germany, which was a prototype. The government will be highly authoritative and centralized in the Supreme World Council, with the national councils and regional councils under its control. The implementation of a semi-Marxist, or military socialism, will then follow (Marx was an Illuminist, and was told what to write in his treatises), coordinated under the umbrella of the regional and national councils. Financial power will be held at the national and international levels. People will be asked to work at reduced wages for the glory of serving the New Order, although compensation will be based on loyalty and performance as time goes on (much as in Marxist and Leninistic Russia). Once the dissenters are subjugated and controlled, they believe that there will no longer be a need to try for world control. They will have it. They will then begin breeding programs to ensure that only the best and brightest reproduce; sterilization of those considered poor genetic specimens will begin. They are firm believers in ’’selective breeding’’, just as Hitler and his scientists were. It is sad, but true, that this is what they teach. Children will be tested for their psychic ability and will go through special teaching to increase their abilities, much as they do now covertly, only it will be open. Question: Does the Illuminati have natural enemies or predators, or competitors with the same goals of global control? Svali: Not that I know of. They are very aware of the Knights Templar, and OTO [Ordo Templi Orientis, a Catholic secret society that is a sister group to the Templar Knights and is involved in lots of occult and illegal activities as well], and while the two groups are split in some areas, they are very sympathetic and share resources with each other. The only true enemy that they see is the Christian church, which opposes all that they do. Because the Illuminati are based in occult spirituality, they 94 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

despise any group that espouses Judaism or fundamental Christianity as being their mortal enemies. This is because Christians engage in spiritual warfare that hurts their cause. Question: What’s your view on the role of China and Russia in light of the latest developments, the Russia-Sino political alignment against the U.S., given the insight you had when you were still part of the Illuminati? Svali: Russia will be the military base and powerhouse of the group, since their military commanders (Illuminist) are considered the best in the world, and very, very disciplined. China, because of its roots in oriental occultism, and its large population, will also be considered a higher power than the US. But again, the real power will reside in Europe, according to what I was taught when part of the group. China will administer the Eastern region and Russia the North. Again, I am sharing what I was taught, but please be aware that it may have been ’’programming’’. One of the most difficult tasks I have encountered since getting out has been to evaluate how much of what I was told is truth, and how much idealism and cult programming. I am NOT an authority on this group, and I held a very low position in it when I was part of it. I sat the leadership council on the San Diego metropolitan area for several years, but had little to do with the international arena.

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INTERVIEW WITH DR DAVID REAGAN Dr. David R. Reagan serves as the Senior Evangelist for Lamb & Lion Ministries. He is a native Texan who resides in a suburb of Dallas. He is married and is the father of two daughters. His wife, Ann, is a retired first grade teacher. They have four grandchildren and one greatgrandchild. Dr. Reagan is a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Texas in Austin. His graduate degrees were earned in the field of International Relations from the Fletcher School of Law & Diplomacy of Tufts and Harvard Universities. Dave — as he prefers to be called — was the founder of Lamb & Lion Ministries in 1980. Before entering the ministry he had an extensive career in higher education which included the following positions: Assistant to the President of Austin College in Sherman, Texas; President of South Texas Jr. College in Houston; Director of Pepperdine University's Center for International Business in Los Angeles; and Vice President of Phillips University in Enid, Oklahoma. In the mid-60's Dave served as a Fulbright Lecturer at the University of the Philippines and toured all of Southeast Asia lecturing on U.S. foreign policy in behalf of the U.S. Information Agency. Dave is a life-long Bible student, teacher, and preacher. He entered the full time ministry in 1976 when he was called to serve as the pulpit minister for a church in Irving, Texas. His ordination as a Christian minister has been formally recognized by three different Christian groups. He is the author of many religious essays which have been published in a wide variety of journals and magazines. He has written nine books — Eternity: Heaven or Hell?, God's Plan for the Ages, Wrath & Glory: The Meaning of Revelation, The Christ in Prophecy Study Guide, America the Beautiful?, Trusting God, Living for Christ in the End Times, An Overview of Revelation Study Guide, and Jesus is Coming Soon! which is a book for children. He has co-authored another book called The Parched Soul of America. His books have been translated into several languages. Dave's sermons have been distributed worldwide. He has led more than forty pilgrimages to Israel that focus on the prophetic significance of the sites visited. He has also conducted prophecy conferences in Russia, Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Austria, Beloruss, Israel, South Africa, Mexico, the Philippines, India, England (including Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland), and China. Dave is the host of Lamb & Lion's weekly television program called "Christ in Prophecy." This program is broadcast nationally on six Christian networks which combined have access to 70 million homes in the United States. And through DayStar, the program is available to every country in the world. The program deals with the prophetic significance of national and international events.

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David Reagan gave a fascinating interview on the biblical definition of Armageddon and a series of wars yet to take place which will happen according to his understanding and interpretation of specific biblical prophecies. Regan is interviewed by Bill Salus, author of Israelstine who has appeared on WorldNetDaily as a commentator. Bill Salus: Welcome to another addition of the Prophecy Update, whereby we attempt to authenticate the sovereignty of God through Bible prophecy by informing you as to what Bible prophecy has to say about these days. Today my good friend Dr. David Reagan will be joining me to discuss the wars of the end times. David has published a third edition of a must read book called America the Beautiful: The United States in Bible Prophecy. This release couldn't be timelier in the light of the genuine concerns about America's future. Dr. Reagan is an expert on the subject. I say this not just because he has a solid prophetic background, but because he has an extensive political one as well. Isn't that correct, David? Dr. Reagan: Well, that is true. I was highly involved in politics for about 20 years. Plus, I was also a professor on American Politics, Constitutional Law and International Law and Politics. Bill Salus: Many people probably didn't realize the background you have there. Will the next end time war be Armageddon? Bill Salus: Now, to the topic of the wars of the end time. As you well know, David, Hezbollah has 40,000 rockets aimed at Israel. Some of those may be targeting Tel Aviv someday soon. Iran is about to produce their first nuclear weapon and North Korea is also rattling their nuclear sabers at Israel. Israel is considering a preemptive strike upon Iran. All this has people, of course, concerned that we could be heading for the end times Armageddon War. Now, what do you think this is all leading up to? Is it Armageddon, David? Dr. Reagan: Well, it is certainly leading up to a major confrontation. But, it is not going to be Armageddon. As I said in the article that I published recently about these wars of the end times, it seems like the only war that most people are aware of is the War of Armageddon, or what is called or referred to as the "Battle of Armageddon." Every time a war breaks out in the Middle East, as you well know, Bill, you get a bunch of calls and messages. I do, and so does everybody else involved in Bible prophecy. People are asking, "Is this the war of Armageddon?" Even the secular world — that's the only end time war that they know about. They are always writing about and wondering if maybe this or that is the War of Armageddon. The War of Armageddon is just one of them, as I point out in my article. There are different ways to count them, but I have counted nine end time wars that are in Bible prophecy. Armageddon is just one of those, and it certainly is not going to be the next one. Bill Salus: Revelation 16:16 is where the term "Armageddon" appears vividly. 97 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

What will be the next war? Dr. Reagan: Well, that is a good question and, Bill, this is where you play a very, very major role. Most Bible prophecy experts including such well known people as Joel Rosenberg all believe that the next great prophetic war in the Middle East will be the war that is outlined in Ezekiel 38 and 39 which portrays Russia leading a coalition of Muslim nations against Israel. But, in your book Isralestine, Psalms 83 points out that couldn't be the next prophetic war in the Middle East. I think you really plowed some new ground when you wrote that book and made that point. There are several reasons that you gave, but two that I would mention that are very important to me is that in Ezekiel 38:8,11,14, three times it says that the Russian-led invasion of Israel will not occur until Israel is living securely in un-walled villages. Well, Bill, you know as well as I do that Israel is not living securely today and they're certainly not in what we would call un-walled villages. In fact, the Israelis are in the process of building a 400 mile long wall right down the middle of their country to try to defend themselves against terrorist. Israel is anything but secure today. So that condition just doesn't exist. Another thing that's interesting that you pointed out in your book is that the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will have certain specified allies that come down with Russia, and none of those allies have a common border with Israel. Now, why in the world would there be a Russian invasion of Israel with Muslim allies and none of those allies be a single country with a common border with Israel? Jordan is not mentioned, Lebanon is not mentioned, Syria is not mentioned, Egypt is not mentioned, and Gaza is not mentioned. In your book, which I consider a real important book where you talk about Psalm 83, you point out that there has to be a war before the Ezekiel 38 and 39 War, a war in which Israel will defeat all of the Muslim nations with which it has a common boundary. Your theory is that this is the war that is mentioned in Psalm 83. And, I'll tell you what, I think you are right on target. I think the Psalm 83 War will be the next prophetic war in the Middle East. I think Israel, as you say in your book, will conquer all of those Muslim nations that have a common boundary with it. Israel will be greatly expanded in size, in power, in influence, in wealth, and then it will be living in security. Then it will be living in un-walled villages and then it will have fulfilled all the conditions for the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 when Russia will come down with an outer circle of Muslim nations that do not have a common boundary with Israel. If anyone hasn't read Isralestine, they need to read it right away, because I think the Psalm 83 War of Extermination is probably going to be the war that is going to lead to the next fulfillment of prophecy — the destruction of Damascus. This will most likely happen when all of Israel's bordering nations come against Israel. Hezbollah has its 40,000 missiles and Syria has it's very sophisticated missiles. Syria will be shooting those only 125 miles. It is not going to be shooting them a thousand miles like Saddam Hussein was doing. And, plus, they are very sophisticated missiles. I think the only hope that Israel will have is to resort to the use of nuclear weapons to defend itself. I think it will blow Damascus in Syria off the face of the map, just as it 98 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

is prophesied in two places in the Old Testament (Isa. 17:1-14; Jer. 49:23-27). When that happens, I think the whole Arab world will go into a panic. I think they will turn to their natural ally Russia, and ask Russia to come to their aid. Bill Salus: Today in Israel, actually since June, they have been preparing for a multi-front war with Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and Hamas. What we are talking about is a very high probability that the prophetic war that you are referencing in Psalm 83 and the dramatic prophetic event of Isaiah 17:1 which is the destruction of Damascus could happen in the very near future. David, your thoughts on this are a little bit speculative, so we don't want to spend too much time on it, but because I believe that we could be talking about the next prophetic headline in the Middle East, let's spend just a second on it before we get into these other wars that follow. If Israel strikes Iran preemptively because of their nuclear sites, it is likely don't you believe, that Israel is justified in preparing for war with Hezbollah, Syria, and Hamas and Iran and that there is going to be a retaliation? Dr. Reagan: Well, absolutely! A preemptive attack would be justified, just as it was in the War of 1967 when the Israelis finally decided, "Hey, we are about to be attacked on all fronts. If we just sit here and wait for the attack, we don't have a hope." And so, they launched a preemptive attack that was the key to winning the 1967 War. They are going to have to launch a preemptive attack here as they cannot simply sit by on the sidelines and wait for the missiles to start coming. Most people don't realize how small Israel is. We are talking about a country only 75 miles wide and about 300 miles long. They just can't sit there and wait for these things to come. For example, they cannot wait for Iran to get a nuclear weapon. The Iranians have made it very clear the moment they get one they are going to use it. All they need is one. They just drop it on Tel Aviv and that is going to take care of the whole country. They don't have to hit it with multiple nuclear weapons. Bill Salus: As far back as August 2008, the Kuwaiti Daily reported that chemical components had made their way from North Korea through Iran, through Syria, and into Hezbollah's hands. We have said they already have 40,000 rockets. Carrie Hart, a friend of mine in Israel who is the Jerusalem correspondent for Jewish Voice Television, just emailed me the other day and said that Israel in January 2010 is going to be preparing a massive nationwide chemical and biological defense drill for their whole society because they are very concerned about this happening. Will diplomacy make a difference? Bill Salus: Do you believe there is the potential that this whole international thrust to try to trade land for peace and create this two state solution that something is going to blast out in the Middle East? Also, Ahmadinejad just said recently he is ready to start talking with Obama, however, he doesn't want to talk about the nuclear programs. He says there are plenty of other things to talk about. Do you think 99 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

that that there could be a temporary (it would of course have to be temporary because we know Psalm 83 is coming) peace that could be crafted through these diplomatic efforts? Dr. Reagan: I don't think so. It could happen, but I don't think that is a high probability, because I think that Israel is going to have to attack Iran. Any other nation in the world would do that. If any nation in the world, like Canada for instance, was saying as soon as they had developed an atomic weapon they we're going to drop it on Washington, D.C., would we sit there and twiddle out thumbs and talk about it? I don't think so! I think we would take immediate action to make sure that did not happen. The whole world is so hypocritical when it comes to Israel. The world will condemn Israel for doing exactly what every other nation in the world would do. If we had somebody shooting rockets across the Rio Grande River into Texas, how long do you think we would put up with that before we invaded Mexico and put an end to it? And, yet, we say to Israel, "Oh, you must not go into Lebanon and you must not go into Gaza. You must be patient and you must negotiate." It is absolute nonsense! Bill Salus: I couldn't agree more, David. I also don't think they will grab for the temporary peace. I think that it has gotten too far and too serious for that now. Dr. Reagan: One thing, Bill, that I don't understand is how people can ignore your thesis. I mean, take a person like Joel Rosenberg who is an outstanding thinker about the Middle East, and yet I was at a conference recently where he was asked specifically about Psalm 83 and he just dismissed it and said he didn't think it was all that important. He went on to say that he felt like Israel was relatively living at peace. How can people ignore the fact that Israel is not living in peace and not living in un-walled cities? I just don't see how they can ignore this. Bill Salus: Well, that is why I am grateful that the Lord used me to bring this contribution into the arena. So many, many people are reading the book now and starting to do their own studies and form their own thesis about it. The war does seem extremely near and people need to be paying attention to it. Dr. Reagan: How else do you explain the absence from the Ezekiel 38-39 nations of any Muslim allies that have a common border with Israel? You think they are just going to sit there and be calm and do nothing at all while Russia invades with all these other Muslim nations? It doesn't make any sense! Bill Salus: You are right. It's not like Russia is not getting into the mix even with these inner circle of nations. They recently received a huge contract for exporting military technologies to Saudi Arabia. Dr. Reagan: That's right. Bill Salus: Saudi Arabia would be under the banner of the Ishmaelites in Psalm 83:6-8. What is also interesting to me is that these contracts that Russia is developing with Saudi Arabia are also recently being made with Syria. When Israel defeats those nations, that is going to upset Russia quite a bit because who knows where they will be in the midst of collecting monies from those contracts. Instead, Israel is likely going to confiscate those weapons. 100 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Dr. Reagan: The other thing that is very interesting, too, is the way in which Egypt and Saudi Arabia and nations like that — moderate Muslim nations to some extent that at least don't have the kind of government like Iran does — are evidently scared to death of Iran at this point and are giving tacit approval to Israel to launch an attack by giving them fly over rights and letting them send nuclear subs through the Suez Canal. It is pretty obvious that they are saying loud and clear to Iran that they are going to cooperate with the Israelis in this attack because they are as scared of Iran as the Israelis are. Bill Salus: Right! It goes back to the defeat of Saddam Hussein. Iran has for a long time had their eye on the Islamic crescent being under their dominion. Dr. Reagan: That's right. Bill Salus: The Fertile Crescent Arab nations are concerned that Iran's nuclear aspirations are more far reaching then just taking out Israel and wiping it off the map. Should the Church still be here during Psalm 83's fulfillment, we would become an excellent witnessing tool to the world. Where do you think the Rapture of the Church is going to fit in? Is it going to be pre-Psalm 83, or post-Psalm 83, or what? Dr. Reagan: I think you just raised a very valid point. I have actually had some of my supporters' write me very concerned messages saying, "Your endorsement of Bill Salus' theory about Psalm 83 means that you no longer believe the Rapture is imminent." And, I have written back and said, "No, not at all. I think the Rapture can occur at any moment." The Rapture is not what begins the Tribulation. It is some sort of treaty between the Antichrist and Israel that starts the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur a year, 2 years, 3 years, or even 5 years before the start of the Tribulation. The Rapture can occur at any moment. Now, whether it is going to occur before Psalm 83 or during the Psalm 83 War or after that war, I have no idea, Bill. I am not setting dates for the Rapture. I believe the Rapture is an event that can occur at any moment. It could be before the Psalm 83 War, during it, or after it. Bill Salus: I concur. And, that was the big question! We'll leave the answer as this — if we are still here at the fulfillment of Psalm 83, we need to certainly be prepared to use the foreknowledge of this war as one of our best witnessing tools. Dr. Reagan: Amen! I think it is unfair of those who attack you saying that if you put in this Psalm 83 War that somehow you are saying that's an event that must occur before the Rapture, and therefore the Rapture is no longer imminent, because that is not the position that you've taken. Bill Salus: No, it's not. You're right, this topic has come up, so I thank you for clearing it up.

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How does the United States play into this war? Bill Salus: During the Bush Administration when he declared a war on terror, Israel took the advantage of building a 400 mile wall to keep terrorists out. And, it has worked. It has kept Palestinian terror somewhat at bay. Now, you'll start to hear articles coming out about how things on the ground are different there geopolitically, and that maybe there really is an opportunity for some legitimate peace because the Palestinian leadership apart from Hamas is getting a little more conducive to having peace. But, the bottom line is this that wall is what is causing those changes on the ground there. Currently, President Obama has a 4% or less popularity rating in Israel among Israeli Jews who think he is pro-Israel, according to a Jerusalem Post poll recently issued. He has definitely got Israeli Jews concerned about a sentiment of American betrayal. Dr. Reagan: He has me concerned along the same line, because the Bible makes it very clear that those that turn against Israel in the end times and try to divide the land that God will deal with them, and He will deal with them in His wrath. We are just begging for the wrath of God upon this nation through the policy that Obama is pursuing. Think about how hypocritical it was when protestors in Iran were having huge demonstrations in the street after the recent election, and Obama said nothing! He said nothing and he said nothing until finally he was forced to say something, and then he said, "Well, I just don't want to say anything because who am I to interfere in the affairs of another nation. That is a sovereign nation." And yet, he turned right around and began to put all kinds of demands upon Israel, saying to the Israelis, "You can't even build a building in Jerusalem." I mean, come on! What if Israel told us we couldn't build a building in Washington, D.C.? Bill Salus: Obama is pushing Israel to freeze their settlements which is very controversial right now. Biblically speaking, God is bringing the Jews back into the land and a moratorium on housing does not seem to be part of God's prophetic program. Dr. Reagan: That's right, that's very right. Bill Salus: Obama's policy is butting heads with God, and we know where that is all going to end up. After the Psalm 83 War of Extermination, as you call it, would the second end time war in the series be the First War of Gog-Magog? Bill Salus: Let's talk about the war that naturally would seem to follow the taking out of the inner circle of Arab nations around Israel in Psalm 83. It would appear then according to your article that Ezekiel 38 and 39 would be ripe to occur? Dr. Reagan: Yes, I think that if Israel will be living in peace, it would be with expanded borders and great wealth. I think that the whole Arab world then would naturally turn to Russia which is their

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natural ally and invite the Russians to come down and assist them. And, I think this is going to set the stage for the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war which would be the second of these wars. Russia will come down with Turkey and Iran and with other Muslim nations that surround Israel in an outer circle. In fact, all of the Arab nations are Muslim nations in the outer circle, except for Saudi Arabia which the Bible says will sit on the sidelines and not get involved. I think that would be the next war. I think that Russia would come after not only the great wealth of Israel, but I really believe that they will be coming down also for the wealth of the Arab nations. Russia has always wanted the Middle East. They have always wanted the oil fields. They have always wanted a greater presence there. And, for the Arabs to invite them to come to take care of Israel, well, I think they will be coming with a smile, not only to take care of Israel, but also to put all of the Middle East under their hegemony and have greater control of that area. You may remember that after World War II Russia invaded Iran and refused to remove their troops until after the end of World War II. President Truman called in their foreign minister for a meeting. When the meeting was finished the Russian minister came out and he was white as a sheet. He was asked, "What did the President say?" H replied, "All I can say to you is that I have never been talked to like that in my entire life." What Truman basically told Russia was, "You either get out of Iran or we'll drop a nuclear bomb on you." They withdrew their troops, but they still wanted Iran. Bill Salus: I give credit to Joel Rosenberg and Chuck Smith from Calvary Chapel and many of those people who are teaching pretty strongly about the Ezekiel 38 and 39 War. We are suggesting that perhaps this war is near, but it's not the next war. Dr. Reagan: Yes. Bill Salus: A lot of good articles are being forwarded around that Russia and Iranian national relations have never been stronger. Russia is helping Iran with their nuclear program. We've also recently got Turkey, a member of the Ezekiel 38-39 coalition, contracted to get the S-400 missile defense system. And Libya, who is also involved, Russian recently contracted with Libya to develop a nuclear program of their own. Dr. Reagan: I think the things that are happening in Turkey are very important along this line, because the Turks have wanted so much to get into the European Union. The European Union is scared to death of them because they know that the moment they were to be added to the European Union they would have to allow free immigration into all of Western Europe and there would be a flood of Muslims into Western Europe, which they don't want. So, they have found every reason in the world to keep the Turks out. And, as they have done that, the Turks have become more and more upset. Turkey now has a very nationalistic leadership that is very Muslim-oriented and is basically saying they need to become a Muslim nation, which they already are, but they aren't in their government yet.

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Turkey is saying that they need to do that. What I think we are seeing is Turkey being forced to turn its attention away from the West and back towards the East, getting in bed with its natural allies. Bill Salus: Turkey over the past few decades has looked like a fish out of water. Dr. Reagan: Yes. Bill Salus: I am going to put a plug in here for Dr. Ron Rhodes, he has a book called Northern Storm Rising. It is an excellent book to give you a broad perspective of the whole Ezekiel 38 and 39 invasion. Dr. Reagan: It is an excellent book! The only weakness of it is that it was written before your book, and so Ron doesn't consider Psalm 83, but he certainly has a lot of good arguments in there. The book is about the timing of the Ezekiel 38 and 39 War. It asks when the war will be — "At the middle of the Tribulation? At the beginning of the Tribulation? Before the Tribulation?" He believes that it will occur about 3 1/2 years before the Tribulation starts. Bill Salus: As does Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum and myself. I believe even you, correct? Dr. Reagan: Yes, that is true. Do you believe that this Russian-Iranian led consortium will be a nuclear equipped invasion of Israel? Dr. Reagan: Yes, I think there will be nuclear weapons that they will certainly bring with them. Whether they will use them or not I don't know, but they'll certainly bring them with them. The Bible in Ezekiel 38-39 talks about the Israelis using these weapons for seven years, burning them, and it could well be that it is talking about nuclear fuel. Bill Salus: I concur. Will Islam survive? Bill Salus: There has been a lot of promotion lately about an Islamic Antichrist. Now, if Psalm 83 consisting of primarily Muslim countries and Ezekiel 38 and 39 consisting of numerous Muslim countries, and if these wars end up in a bitter defeat for Islam as we know they will, then what does that say for the survival of Islam? Dr. Reagan: Well, it doesn't say a whole lot because I think God is going to be using these wars. One of the purposes of these wars will be that God will use them to judge Islam. I think that when these two wars are over with, you are going to find Islam in total disarray in the Middle East, because all of the Islamic nations will have been defeated except for Saudi Arabia. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not even live in the Middle East, they are not Arabs, they live in other countries. The largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia, the second largest is India, the third largest is Bangladesh, and the fourth would be Pakistan. So those are your big 104 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Muslim nations which are not even in the Middle East, but certainly Islam is going to suffer an overwhelming defeat in the Middle East. Bill Salus: Recently President Obama said that America was one of the largest populated Muslim countries. Dr. Reagan: I think he must have been smoking something. Bill Salus: Jack Kinsella came on my radio program and cleared that up. He said the CIA Fact Book says that there have been more people who believed they were abducted by aliens than there are Muslims, so obviously his facts were a little bit messed up on that. Now regarding Saudi Arabia not being involved in Ezekiel 38 and 39, they will be taking a hit for their role in Psalm 83, though not necessarily a devastating hit. Ezekiel 25:12-15 does say that Dan shall fall by the sword. It also talks about the Hamas in the Philistia area getting hit, as well as it appears the Palestinian representatives of the Edomites in those passages. Tell us about the end time wars 3 and 4 — The Conventional War of the Tribulation (Revelation 6) and the Nuclear War of the Tribulation (Revelation 8 & 9). Bill Salus: Let's move onto war number three — Revelation 6. What do we have going there, David? Dr. Reagan: A lot of people believe that when the Tribulation begins that the whole world will be so taken by the Antichrist because he will be such a dynamic, charismatic personality that the whole world will just bow down and start worshipping him. I don't believe that at all. I think that will be true in Europe. I think he will be seen as a great Savior. I think the Israeli's will look upon him as a political Savior, though not a spiritual one, just a political one. I think he will rise to power in Europe peacefully through his cunning and through his charismatic and dynamic leadership. But, I don't think the rest of the world is going to bow down immediately and accept him as a world leader. Africa and Asia and Latin America have spent 200 years getting out from underneath European dominance and they are not going to suddenly turn around and bow down to some European leader and say, "Come rule us." I think that he is going to have to conquer them. In Revelation 6 we see the beginnings of a great conventional war in the Tribulation period when the Antichrist is setting out to conquer the entire world. I believe the ones who will oppose him the most will be the remaining Muslims. I believe God will work through these wars to finish off Islam, and this will be the pouring out of God's wrath upon Islam. I think that the war will result in the destruction of many of these Islamic nations, but it is going to start out I believe as a conventional war. I think that is what we read about in Revelation 6. What happens in Revelation 8 and 9, is the war morphing into a nuclear war. When I read Revelation 8 and 9 it reads more like a nuclear confrontation where 2/3 of the Earth is burned up. At the end of the book of Revelation we see people covered with loathsome and malignant sores that will not heal, which could be a result of nuclear radiation from this war. 105 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

So, I basically think that the Tribulation will begin with a conventional war that will morph into a nuclear war, and through those two wars the Antichrist will be able to take over the entire Earth. It says in Revelation 13 that He will end up ruling every tribe, every tongue and every nation on planet Earth. He is going to do this through military conquest. Bill Salus: Okay, you actually covered a bit of the fourth war when you skipped on over to Revelation 8 and 9, and they do segway well into one another — a 1-2-3 punch. In Zephaniah 2:11, it does talk about God destroying all the false gods of the Earth. Dr. Reagan: That's right. Bill Salus: And so, what you might be suggesting here is a partial fulfillment of at least the God of Islam — Allah — through Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39? Dr. Reagan: I think by the middle of the Tribulation Islam is going to be a past memory. Do you believe the Rapture will occur prior to this Tribulational war? Dr. Reagan: Yes, I do. I think the Rapture will happen before the Tribulation and that the world will be left in chaos. Of course, it will be more in the United States than in any other nation in the world because we have more Christians in this country than all of Western Europe and England put together right now. So, it will be absolute chaos in some areas of the world, moreso than others. And so, yes, I think we will be taken out before all of this happens. Bill Salus: What a platform the Antichrist will have to spread his lies about what happened to the Christians, because the world is going to wonder about the disappearances. To emerge on the backdrop of these wars using satanically fueled signs and lying wonders, this guy is indeed going to be recognized as the Antichrist by the Tribulation believers, not to mention the fact that somewhere in the mix we've got to have that false covenant signed (Daniel 9:27; Isa. 28). Dr. Reagan: Right. What's going on with the fifth war — The War in the Heavens (Revelation 12)? Dr. Reagan: The fifth one I mentioned in my article is the only one that is supernatural in nature, although the others have supernatural aspects to them. For example, Ezekiel 38 and 39 has a supernatural aspect in that during the Russian invasion Russia and all of its allies are going to be supernaturally destroyed by God on the hills of Israel, in such a way that even the Israelis will know that it came from God. So, that is going to be a supernatural destruction. But, the fifth war is truly supernatural in every aspect of it because it is mentioned in Revelation 12, and it is a war in the heavens between the forces of Satan who infest the atmosphere of this planet 106 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

and Michael the Archangel and the armies of God. Evidently it is an attempt by Satan to take the Throne of God one last time. Michael intervenes and he and his angels defeat Satan and his demons. Satan is thrown down to Earth at this point, and when he comes down it is in great wrath because he knows his time is short. This shows Satan knows Bible prophecy because he realizes that when his access to Heaven is cut off and he is thrown down to Earth he has very little time left. So, this is a supernatural war in the heavens. Satan is thrown down, and when he comes down to Earth the very first thing he does is to possess the Antichrist and give him even greater power. Bill Salus: You are talking about the war referred to in Revelation 12:9-10. Knowing that his time is short, does Satan conduct the sixth war — The War Against the Jews and the Saints (Revelation 12)? Dr. Reagan: That is indeed when the war against the Jews and the Saints occurs. By "saints" I mean those who have accepted Jesus during the Tribulation. There is going to be a great harvest of souls during the Tribulation. Some people will turn to Jesus Christ as a result of the Rapture. They will have been told that it is going to occur. I think the Rapture itself is an event that will cause many to turn to the Lord. Others will come to the Lord as the result of the witness of the preaching of the two great witnesses of God that will be preaching in Jerusalem during the first 3 1/2 years before they are killed by the Antichrist. And then, there are also going to be Bibles everywhere. I have marked up my Bible really well so that a person won't have to search diligently, but they can find the key Scriptures. There will be Scripture everywhere. There is going to be all kinds of information on the internet before the Antichrist can close it down. We're posting videos right now for people who are left behind, and others are doing the same thing. There is going to be 144,000 Jews who are sealed of God who will be out preaching the Gospel. We are told right at the end of the Tribulation what I call the "Gospel Angel" will be unleashed by God. He will circumnavigate the globe and preach the Gospel to every person on planet Earth before the final pouring out of God's wrath. So, there are going to be a great number of people saved during the Tribulation, though most are going to be killed by the Antichrist, some will live to the end. It appears that in the middle of the Tribulation after this supernatural war in Heaven when Satan is cast down and he posses the Antichrist, Satan will then empower the Antichrist as he has never been empowered before. The first thing he will do is turn against the Jews. He will double-cross them and he will declare himself to be God. They will, of course, reject him as God, and in his fury he will try to annihilate every Jew on planet Earth. We are told in the book of Zechariah that two-thirds of the Jews

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will die during the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. It is going to be a holocaust as great if not greater than the Nazi Holocaust. Satan hates the Jews because they are the chosen people of God, because they gave the Scriptures to the world, and because it was through them the Messiah was sent. Because God has promised He is going to save a great remnant, Satan doesn't want God to keep that promise, and so he will go after every Jew and every Gentile believer on planet Earth during that last 3 1/2 years. My personal belief is that during that time when he is so obsessed with this, so obsessed with the annihilating the Jews and all believing Gentiles, that his worldwide kingdom will start falling apart because he will not be paying attention to it. Bill Salus: We know that the Antichrist will want a war against the Saints because of the spread of the Gospel, but why war against the Jews? Well, I think you said it when you brought forward their important role in God's plan. Ultimately, if Satan can utterly destroy the Jews, he can prove God to be a promise breaker and justify his leaving his post of proper habitation. When these Jews are fleeing for their lives, many people teach that they are going to flee into southern Jordan, which is of course not under Israeli sovereignty as of yet, however it likely will be in the aftermath of Psalm 83. What transpires as these Jews flee? Where do you see them going? Dr. Reagan: Revelation 12:14 says that Israel will flee on the "wings of a great eagle," which is a terminology taken out of the Old Testament when they fled out of Egypt. They came out on the wings of a great eagle, which is symbolic language for the fact that they came out under the protection of Almighty God. It says, too, that the army that is sent after them by the Antichrist will be swallowed up, probably supernaturally by God. In Daniel we are told that the Antichrist will not be allowed to go into that area which we today call Jordan, and so he will be kept out of the area. It could very well be that their hiding place would be someplace there adjacent to Israel, probably in Jordan as many have postulated, that it might be the ancient city of Petra which is located in a boxed canyon there. Bill Salus: Right, that is commonly taught. Identifying that location is picked up from Isaiah 63, where it shows the Messiah returning to Edom, which is Southern Jordan. Dr. Reagan: Yes, it always portrays the Messiah as returning from the East — from Basra — that area over there. It appears that he goes first there to perhaps pick up the Jews who are in hiding there and then comes on to Jerusalem and lands on the Mount of Olives. In the last segment, Bill and I discussed end time wars 5 and 6 — The War in the Heavens (Revelation 12) and The War Against the Jews and the Saints (Revelation 12). In this segment, we look at the seventh and eighth end time wars in the series. 108 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

What occurs during the seventh end time war — The Middle East Campaign of the Antichrist (Daniel 11)? Bill Salus: The seventh war talks about the segments within Daniel 11:40-45. Take a moment on that, because that builds up ultimately to the Battle of Armageddon which is the eighth war. Dr. Reagan: Yes, the seventh war I mention is the one that is portrayed in Daniel 11. Its exact timing is something that we can only guess at, and your guess is as good as mine. My guess is that it talks about the Antichrist coming into the Middle East with an army and rampaging all around. He goes down into Egypt until he finally hears rumors that greatly upset him about armies coming from the North and the East, and so he retreats back to what appears to be the Valley of Armageddon, to the valley between the two seas, the seas being the Mediterranean and the Sea of Galilee. Looking at all of that, and this is just a guess on my part, my guess would be while his attention is diverted from his worldwide kingdom, that the kingdom worldwide begins to revolt against him, and that there are revolutions in the East and the North as they begin to revolt against his power. They begin to send armies into that area as well. The Antichrist brings a great army in and he rampages around for awhile, and then he retreats back to the Valley of Armageddon to await the arrival of these other armies, which I think are coming there to revolt against him. Others believe that they are coming there to join him, so that's just something we have to speculate about. But, I personally believe it's going to be them coming against Antichrist in revolt. Does this campaign lead to the eighth war — The Battle of Armageddon (Joel 3, Zechariah 14, and Revelation 19)? Dr. Reagan: Yes, as the Antichrist is now there in the Valley of Armageddon. His campaign prepares us for what is called "The Battle of Armageddon." That is where the Lord Jesus Christ returns in glory and destroys all of the armies that are gathered there. I point out in my article that I think it is kind of a misnomer to refer to that as a "Battle" of Armageddon, because when you think of a battle you think of a great army going out against another army. The Lord doesn't come back and send an army against the Antichrist and his forces. He just simply comes back to the Mount Olives, speaks a supernatural word, and they are instantly killed by the millions. It is like a neutron bomb going off. It says that their eyes melt in their sockets, their tongues melt in their mouth, their skin falls from the ground, and you end up with a river of blood that is as deep as a horse's bridle. It is an instantaneously supernatural thing on the part of the Lord Jesus Christ when He speaks a supernatural word. It is a plague. It is referred to as a plague in the book of Zechariah when He returns to the Mount of Olives.

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Bill Salus: You bring up a good point, because in Isaiah 63 it says He comes down to Edom. It does suggest that He takes on the whole Battle of Armageddon, or the "Armageddonites" as I like to call them, single-handedly. Jesus has no reinforcements. He is doing this all on His own accord it sounds like. Dr. Reagan: I would be interested in your interpretation of Daniel 11, because I know that you don't agree with mine. Bill Salus: I write in Isralestine about that specific segment, Daniel 11:44 in particular. You know the Antichrist moves into the glorious land which I believe is a much broader Israel than we have today, and he makes his way down through this campaign. He takes out 2/3 of the Jewish people, as you reference in Zechariah 13, and then he moves into Egypt continuing his devastation. Then Daniel 11:44-45 says, "But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him." We know the Antichrist comes to his end, as you just stated through the return of the Lord, but I believe the troubling news that comes from the Northeast (which would be directionally be southern Jordan) to where he would be in Egypt would be that 1/3 of the faithful remnant has escaped his genocidal attempt. There the faithful remnant beckons the return of Jesus Christ as we are told in Hosea 5:15. This is where the Lord returns to their beckoning and that is what I think troubles him. But, like you said, there is guess work in this, and your idea could be what it is just as well. We race right on through all of these wars to get to the Battle of Armageddon, and there is a whole lot that's got to happen until then. Is that what you are saying? Dr. Reagan: That's right, yes. People should not expect the next war in the Middle East to be the Battle of Armageddon Bill Salus: You know people were asking that when the towers came down on September 11th. In the last segment, Bill and I discussed end time wars 7 and 8 — The Middle East Campaign of the Antichrist (Daniel 11) and The Battle of Armageddon (Joel 3, Zechariah 14, and Revelation 19). In this final segment, we look at the last end time war in human history. Is there another war after Armageddon? Bill Salus: We are going to end with the ninth battle because people must be wondering what comes after Armageddon. How could there be another war after that? Doesn't Jesus come and set up His Kingdom? Dr. Reagan: There is another battle of Gog and Magog, believe it or not. It is one that people often confuse with the first battle of Gog and Magog. I have seen entire books written where people try to 110 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

prove that they are the same battle, but I don't see it that way at all. The first Battle of Gog and Magog is Russia coming down with certain specified allies against Israel. The second battle of Gog and Magog is once again Russia leading the whole world, not certain specified allies, but the whole world in revolt against the reign of Jesus Christ. Now those are two big differences. One you've got specified allies and it's an invasion of Israel, the other is leading the whole world against not Israel but Jesus Christ, trying to overthrow His reign. This Second Battle of Gog and Magog occurs at the end of the Millennium after 1,000 years of perfect peace, righteousness and justice. Satan is let loose and basically what he says to the world is, "Let's go get the joker in Jerusalem and overthrow him." It is astonishing to think that probably even the majority of those living in the flesh during that time will decide to join in this revolt against Jesus Christ. People will often say to me, "How could that be? The world has celebrated 1,000 years of perfect peace, righteousness and justice." My response to that is, "Stop and think for a moment what it would be like to live under the rule of the rod of iron, under the rule of Jesus Christ in the flesh." The flesh wants everything the flesh wants — a little gambling here, a little promiscuous sex over there, some booze over here — all the things that the flesh wants. Those in the flesh during that time will know that if they violate the law they will be arrested and be tried immediately, given an immediate sentence by a person in a glorified body with the mind of Christ. There will be no appeal whatsoever because the first decision will be perfect. So what do you do? You sit on all of these desires and you say, "We love you Lord." But, you are saying it with clenched teeth and you don't mean it at all. And so, when Satan comes along and says, "Let's over throw him!," I think there is going to be a tremendous burst of rebellion and people will agree to "Let's do it!" What I think is that the Bible moves in a circle. It begins with two people in a perfect environment who rebel against God. It ends with all of humanity in a perfect environment and most of humanity rebelling against God. What is God doing here? He is proving once and for all that you cannot change people by changing their environment. The only way you can change them is through the revolution of the Holy Spirit coming within their lives through faith in Jesus Christ and being transformed. You cannot transform them by changing their environment. All humanists believe that evil is in society and not in man, and if you can just change society you can change man, but the Bible says evil is rooted in man and the only hope for changing that is through the power of the Holy Spirit. Bill Salus: Well, David, when we were preaching together in Louisiana at the prophecy conference you said, "You are no longer just watching for the signs." What are you watching for now? Dr. Reagan: I'm not watching for anything. I am listening for a sound. I am listening for the shout of an angel and the blowing of a trumpet. Bill Salus: Amen to that one, David!

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INTERVIEW WITH DAN BURISCH Most students and researchers of the UFO/alien phenomenon need no introduction to Dan Burisch. Articulate, provocative, human, compelling, and – as some insist – challenging to believe, Dan and his story are integral components of our efforts to understand and come to grips with the bewildering labyrinth that is the mystery of who the aliens are, why they are here, how we interact with them, and what may be at stake. Dan discusses his experience in Area 51 with Kerry Cassidy, where he befriended a captive J-rod called Chi'el'ah; his complex relationship with Chi'el'ah, extending across decades and timelines; his connection with Majestic-12; the war between Majestic and the Illuminati; the race to close down the Looking Glass technology and secure the man-made stargates leading up to 2012; the calculated chance (19%, or 1 in 5), that 4 billion people will die from natural catastrophes triggered by the activation of the manmade stargates; the twists and turns of the convergent timeline paradox that affect the aliens from the future as much as they do ourselves; and much, much more. Cassidy: How would you like to start? What's the best place to start as far as Stargates go? Dan: Well, I've got a list of questions here in front of me, submitted by you two, all 30 of them. Cassidy: [laughs] Burisch: Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have mentioned the number. Cassidy: No, no ... Burisch: They are decommissioned. They are separated into their three components: there's a projection component, a ring component, and also a barrel component to both the Stargate devices as well as the Looking Glass device. The Stargates also have field posts, and again I'm not a physicist so I wouldn't be the appropriate one to make comment as to how they work. But there were field posts that were positioned around the actual “gates” and they have been stored, I guess. I'm not certain what happened to the field components. But the three components have actually been decommissioned and liasioned to the European Union, the United Nations, and NATO, who are actually in possession of them. And there is no one group which has the other one of the other two components. Cassidy: OK, so ... Burisch: So everybody is staring at everybody and they're not ... They can't put the equipment together because everybody is mutually dependent and looking questioningly at everybody else. So everybody is literally protecting everybody else. Of the actual base operating equipment, there are three 112 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

components to it, which is a projection device of some sort, a barrel, and a set of rings, electromagnetic rings. Cassidy: Are we able to know how many man-made Stargates there were on the planet? Burisch: No. I'm not going to comment as to the total. I will say that there was over 50. Cassidy: Really! Burisch: Yep. Cassidy: Wow. In different countries of the world. Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. And these are man-made? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. So, and now these Stargates ... Burisch: Well, see, it's not a Stargate. It's a device which accesses a portal, a wormhole. Cassidy: Does it access a natural ... In other words, the manmade device accesses a natural Stargate. Burisch: Yes. It draws off from a natural ERB, an Einstein-Rosen Bridge. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: It accesses it and somehow works, from what I understand, not in parallel, but almost like piggybacks, on the energy of the natural Stargate, yeah. Cassidy: OK. So, in other words, if there were only ... If there were 50 man-made devices accessing, they would be accessing a corresponding 50 natural energy vortexes. Burisch: That I don't know. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: There is a possibility that ... In fact when the Looking Glass was operated, they were usually worked in tandem. It required a second Looking Glass to be turned on at the same time to get acoustics through. So unless a second one was turned on ...which operated at one other place, where Will Uhouse had been. He saw the second node location, as opposed to the first node being over at the Papoose facility.

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Two pieces of equipment, two Looking Glasses, were required to be turned on at the same time to be able to hear acoustics or sound, if you will, from whatever the people were watching, to piggyback in tandem with the visual response of the equipment. That it required two to be turned on to hear anything. Cassidy: Uh huh. Burisch: And then both sides could hear the same thing. So I suppose, both of the Looking Glasses being tuned to the same thing was accessing the same “tunnel,” if you will, to the information. Cassidy: OK, that's what I was wondering. So the Looking Glass has an ability to show one the future but a Stargate, or, you know, equipment that accesses a Stargate, or a wormhole, is for time travel? Right? We're talking about two different things? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: Are they using the same technology? Burisch: Essentially, yes. The original device was the Stargate device. That was then increased in power, if you will, with the use of these field posts. How it bumped up the power, how it stabilized it, I don't know. You'd need to speak with a physicist about that. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: However ... Cassidy: It increased it enough to where that it became a Looking Glass? Burisch: Well, no. No. No. It would be pumped up in power to stabilize the “doorway,” if you will, to step through into another location, which in essence, because distance and time are relative, the same thing - step through into another time. The Looking Glass device is a back-engineered Stargate. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: So it was actually back-engineered from the original cylinder-seal data which allowed us to produce the Stargate access devices, if you will, what we call the Stargates. Cassidy: Uh huh. Burisch: It's a back-engineered device, the Looking Glass is. So the Looking Glass is a secondary device and it was coming into its fore in the 60s and 70s and Will saw one of the first generations of it, from what I understand, a very large piece of equipment. They always get smaller, no matter what. Look at what's happened to the computer. Cassidy: Who? Will saw? 114 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: Oh yeah. Cassidy: Will ... Burisch: Will Uhouse. Cassidy: ... Uhouse saw the original Looking Glass. Burisch: He saw one of the original Looking Glasses demonstrated. And in fact it's going to be in the DVD that we're getting ready to put out, the actual interview, where he was indicating the firing of a bullet, I believe it was, through an object, and there was a time delay where the bullet actually passed through the object where you saw the bullet past the object, or the projectile if you will, a rail gun, I believe. What was the ... [Marci McDowell, off screen, confirms this]. Yeah, it was a rail gun being used. And then afterward they saw the impact of the device. So they were already playing with it in the early 70s, early to mid 70s, dealing with time sequences. Cassidy: Wasn't the original Looking Glass back-engineered from alien technology? Burisch: [long pause] Yes. Cassidy: OK. But there was also information around the cylinder-seals ... Burisch: Um hmm.... Cassidy: ...that they used also and that those cylinder-seals also came from an off world race. Burisch: From ... Well, no, the cylinder seals didn't. The information on them did. Cassidy: Which was maybe the Anunnaki? Is that ... Burisch: I wouldn't feel comfortable in characterizing it with that name. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: I really shouldn't. No. Cassidy: But it was off world technology. Originally. Burisch: Yes ma'am. Cassidy: OK. And at this point, like ... OK. Say that was in the 60s? the 50s? Burisch: Well ... Yes. That's when they started actually showing a lot of interest in actually building the equipment to be able to see over the curvature of time-space so that they could see into the future 115 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

and somewhat into the past, but basically the future.

Cassidy: OK. So there's also our Henry Deacon contacts that deal with the “black box” that came on one of the craft. Burisch: Uh huh. Cassidy: And I don't know if you're familiar with that black box. Burisch: Uh huh. Cassidy: Did you have exposure to that as well? Burisch: Yeah. It was something that we called the Cube or the Yellow Disc. Yeah. Cassidy: OK. But that was not ... Was that a Looking Glass? Burisch: That is a variant of the technology. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: However, while the Looking Glass shows probabilities, or has shown probabilities, the Cube would react with the people present, so there was an alteration, if you will, over what you were seeing from it. It would actually spin out as a yellow disc out of the top of it ... where the word “Yellow Book” originally came from. Cassidy: Yeah. OK. Yeah. Burisch: And, depending upon what predisposition ... Kind of like little Yoda telling young Luke, “Bring in there what you have with you.” You know, whatever's there is what you bring. You could then change the perspective, the “tilt,” if you will, the orientation or angle, of the information being presented back to you. So, unless you were well prepared to deal with such a thing, human interaction and human emotions bring instability of the provenance of the information. Cassidy: OK. That's what went on with the black boxes, then. Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. But with the Looking Glass... Burisch: And actually I used that to our advantage at the T-9, because that in fact was present at the T9 and I projected certain information which caused a little upset during the meeting, and they got certain abductions removed and Lotus removed off the calendar, and things like that. I caused some real trouble, in other words. 116 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Cassidy: Can you elaborate? Are you willing to elaborate? Burisch: Well. The...the... Let me sit here and consider what I should and should not ... During the negotiations for the Tau 9-6, I was asked to supply a model for the Lotus. In fact, Marcia and I were both asked because they knew tangentially she was involved. I agreed to do so, which is what you respond when you are a sworn operative. It's “Yes,” unless there are great, great objections. I was then taken to the location where the treaty was actually being negotiated. To give a short recitation as to the nature of Lotus: What was happening is the P-45ks used Lotus. They wanted to use Lotus for the back-engineering of their own neurological problem. I was objecting to its use, but still to provide .... was under orders to provide a model. I was prepared to do so but I was also allowed to show them probable outcomes. So in fact the Yellow Book, the Cube, was used for that purpose. Shockingly, they happened to see themselves standing on the bones of their own families and things like that in the vision and they ultimately decided to remove Lotus as well as certain abductions from the Tau 9 treaty. So we were successful in getting certain things removed I think I can safely mention at this time, because we're only one OF 9 and one Tau 9 treaty away from the passage through the... the completion of the passage through the galactic plane. So I think I'm pretty well safe to go ahead and mention it now. They're not going to be able to get it back and put on the treaties and all of that in the time we have left. In other words, they got out-foxed, and ... that's what happens when you're negotiating treaties. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: OF-9: Dan is referring to the "Omicron Phi 9" Treaty System, the Treaty System not involving the P45ks, and the "Tau 9" or "T9" Treaty System involving all parties including the P-45ks. He is precisely speaking about the "Omicron Phi 9-8" Treaty gathering scheduled for 2009, and the "Tau 9-7" FINAL Treaty gathering scheduled for 2012. Cassidy: So you used the capacity of the Yellow Book or little black box to show them the future implications ... Burisch: Exactly. Cassidy: ... of what using the Lotus to amplify, or to rectify, their own biological problem? Burisch: This is true. And that was skewed by ... It takes a great deal of emotion to skew the imagery and the audio that comes with it. But I'll just say that I am extremely vehement with regard to my objection for Lotus being used, and apparently that vehemence was sufficient to skew the image enough to get them to jump back aghast in horror. Cassidy: Wow. So... OK. And this, kind of like just for the sake of the audience to some degree ... You have seen in, I guess the Yellow Book or in the Looking Glass (and you can correct me on which one it is), the future of Lotus, in effect, how Lotus becomes ...You know, once it's brought to the fore by you ... 117 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: Well, actually, no. No, no, I haven't. I haven't. The reports to me which came concerning the future of Lotus, which we're not going to get into in depth this evening, ah.... was given to me as information. Cassidy: OK. So you didn't see it. Burisch: Personally see it? No. I was told. Cassidy: I see. Burisch: I was told. That was during the early years. I say the “early years” of Lotus. It's only been going on for 6 years now. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: But this was the latter half of 2001 and this was a quid pro quo for them to get certain information from ... that Chi'el'ah showed me. I demanded certain information back, and it actually was information concerning the time travel issue, because they were still trying to be ... You know, they were still reticent about informing me as to what the real nature of the situation was as late as 2001. Cassidy: Meaning, the real situation was ... Meaning how much access to Stargates, to time travel that they actually had? Burisch: Right. The whole treaty system, the situations involving the treaties, their outcomes, the actual potential for both Timeline #1 and Timeline #2 outcomes. In the case that we're in right now, we seem to be on a variant of Timeline #1, and that's good. For everything that I've seen and have read and have had reported to me concerning Timeline #1, it's not happening exactly the way that they figured that it would. But then again, it couldn't because we've made changes along the way which diverted us away from Timeline #2 and in so doing, our future ... Again, I regard our future as something which is pretty much a blank slate. We're writing it for ourselves. And so we are now seeing something coming to pass which is slightly different than the prognostication in the probabilities that we were seeing. And I'm good with what we're seeing so far but, you know, we are still faced with the challenges, the environmental degradation, etc. But hopefully we will rise to the challenge. Cassidy: OK. So this is interesting because it sounds like Chi'el'ah was instrumental in getting you to have greater access to intelligence about what the Looking Glass and MJ12 ... Burisch: Well, it was information that he was providing me which provoked the questions. Cassidy: Yeah.

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Burisch: And the fact that they didn't even want to get into longwinded discussions with me in the late 90s concerning what he even was. After we had argued for years to find out even where the material was coming from, then we were finally given access to the material. I mean, this went on for a few years. Cassidy: OK. But your interaction with Chi'el'ah was leading you one way and giving you one set of information and MJ-12 then had another set. Isn't that right? Burisch: Well, they weren't ... They weren't really ... It wasn't that they had another set of information. He was telling me ... He did tell me basically what was going on. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: And they were simply not providing that information as what they considered a need-to-know situation. Cassidy: I see. So ... Burisch: They just weren't going to tell me what they didn't feel I needed to know. Cassidy: But little did they ... Well, this is my paraphrase, but little did they know that Chi'el'ah was basically clueing you in. Burisch: He was clueing me in and he was informing me his perspectives concerning the treaties. I knew something was going on and that is ultimately what they wanted to know about and I said, “Well, for you to know about that kind of thing, then I need to know about certain other things.” You know, it was truly a quid pro quo situation and they said, “Well OK. We'll tell you if you tell us.” So I told them and they told me a little more. And it was right around that same time that Lotus was actually kicking into fore, the May 31st, 2001 event that took my prosaic project and basically threw it in the garbage can and it turned into what it is now, this project that it is now. And as a result I also found out from them where they said Lotus was ultimately destined. And that is, like I said, we'll discuss that at a slightly future date. Cassidy: OK. But it isn't it true to some extent that Lotus could help Chi'el'ah now? Burisch: That was the perspective of the P-45 J-Rods, and that is not my perspective. Cassidy: I see. So ... because I make a distinction between Chi'el'ah, who is, from what I understand, a P-52, and the P-45s. So, but they're on the same ... Burisch: They're on the same timeline, the same track, but just separated by 7,000 years. Cassidy: OK. So, even so ... 119 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: Which is quite a big separation. Cassidy: So what we get ...what you're saying is that, in a sense, Chi'el'ah couldn't get the benefit of Lotus because ... Burisch: Nor did he ask for it. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: Nor did he ask for it. And I will say this. This is something that David ... I spoke with David on the phone not that long ago. I'll leave the last name off. I think you know who I'm .... Cassidy: Sure, but we can use his name if it's OK with you. Burisch: Well sure. David Wilcock. Cassidy: OK. Yeah, because we taped an interview with him. Burisch: Oh, OK. Wonderful. And he was talking. We were discussing the same thing, which was the Box, the Cube. And I said, “Yeah, but a strange thing happened.” I was pro temp or made MJ-9 for the 12 as the result of a bet that went on within MJ-12. And I got a chance to tap who ended up being the last MJ-9 prior to the adjournment. Before tapping her, who was the first female to ever set in the 12, I got a chance to look at certain documents and look through certain archives in Washington, DC prior to going across to the continent and meeting with some folks and telling them basically I wasn't interested in their offers. I'm talking about a trip to Brussels. Cassidy: To see the lluminati? Burisch: Yeah. And during the same time, the Cube disappeared. And it hasn't been seen since. And it disappeared out of the archives. Of course I have no idea ... I have no idea where the item may be, but I do know this: I'm happy that they can't find it. Because what they were doing is they were handing this Cube around ... And this was a question that Bill had asked, whether there was only one Cube. They were handing this Cube around from country to country, to the elitists in the countries, to look into their own futures so that they could pick the best paths for themselves. Why don't they just live their lives? And try to be good people? Why do they need a little black box to tell them when to jump and how to jump? That's not being fully human, at least from my perspective and those of our associates. That's not being fully human. So, as I understand, it disappeared. Now, there have been certain, you know, allegations, that have been made that during the time when I had... Is it almost a year ago now? When I had the bad seizure? It was near the end of last year, was it? No. [Marcia, off screen, confirming date] It was about a year 120 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

ago and I had a very severe seizure and was actually put out of commission, seriously, for a while, and there was a big hullabaloo to get over to my apartment to get something out of my apartment. What that object was, I won't comment. But I will say this to everybody: Whoever took it, it's in safe hands and it won't be used to harm humanity. Cassidy: All right. Burisch: In fact, the fact that it's in safe hands will prevent it from being used to harm humanity. It has been thus far only used ... Aside from ... Well, I mean, I've got to try to justify my own behavior in Bandelier in using it for the purposes of skewing to get Lotus off and the abductions off. But I think that was for a beneficial cause. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: Bandelier: Dan was referring to the "Bandelier" National Monument, where the Tau 9-6 Treaty gathering was held. See: http://www.nps.gov/band. The P-52k delegates were trucked in from the nearby LANL [Los Alamos National Laboratory], and the P-45ks used the Tyuonyi ruins as the drop off point because they looked like a 9 and the pueblo ruins themselves looked like Inca City, Mars. Cassidy: Right. Burisch: But it has been used since, actually, the 50s, by the potentates, by the leaders of the various countries to skew the history of the human race. Cassidy: Wow. That's amazing. Burisch: And the common folk, the average people, all of us, have a right to a future which is our own, and not being skewed and designated and promulgated and promoted and provoked by bluebloods who feel that they are above everyone else. Cassidy: Well, thank you, Dan. Burisch: You're welcome. Cassidy: I think that we probably all owe you a great thanks for that. Burisch: Well, I'm just ... I'm happy to pass along the information. I'm honored to pass along the information that I understand that the Yellow Book is no longer accessible. Cassidy: Yes. Burisch: That's all I know about it, though. Cassidy: I understand. I totally understand. And, thanks for that information. 121 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: That may be the reason, too, why the Illuminati hasn't done something to us and it also may be the reason, on the other end, why the old Magi haven't and it may be why they're all so quiet and... Hmmm. Cassidy: Right. Burisch: I don't know. Cassidy: They don't have the upper hand any more. Burisch: The people should have the upper hand and they should have the upper hand for their own destiny and that's why we two, have gone as far as what we have to expose the NSSM200 report which was put in during the Ford administration, which I believe was written by Dr. Henry Kissinger, wherein he suggested the possible use of food as a weapon and its use against, in fact, as a tool against, the third world. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: "NSSM200": NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON, Burisch.C. 20506 April 24, 1974; National Security Study Memorandum 200 Now, at the same time we notice that is a correlation going with findings from the IPCC report concerning global warming that if the world average temperature rises, I believe between 2 and 3 degrees Celsius, that the Northern hemisphere, the higher latitude, growth will increase. However, if it goes over that it will decrease. Yet the lower latitudes ... by the way that's where you find most of the third world countries ... the 2 to 3 degree Celsius increase will cause starvation and crop loss. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: Now isn't this funny, how they're just allowing the global warming to increase through the provoking ... with the use of fossil fuels? Now I'm not saying that's the total cause. It's not. There are cycles involved, short as well as long term cycles. But isn't that funny? And it's my best guess that they'll probably order just enough ameliorative steps to be taken where it levels off where the higher latitudes probably don't lose their crops, where you find the majority of the rich countries. Cassidy: Interesting. Well, that's actually a fascinating critical observation. I think that it is also interesting that most of the crops are being grown, though, in the lower latitudes. They're not being grown in North America anymore. Burisch: Right. But you have sustainability, though. Cassidy: Sure. Burisch: Whereas when you have the loss of the crops in the lower latitudes you're also losing a lot of the population from the third world, which, unfortunately, according to the way that the documents read, some people find them expendable.

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Cassidy: Right. Burisch: We don't feel that way. Cassidy: That's the Iron Mountain report ... also talks about things of that nature. And you're familiar with that. Burisch: I've heard of it. Cassidy: OK. It's actually ... It's freely available on the net to be read and it talks about something very similar to that. Burisch: You know, I'm not one that likes to interject myself in politics at all. Cassidy: I know that. I ... Burisch: I like to stay to the research. Cassidy: But at the same time ... Burisch: At the same time, I mean, you know, when we start hearing that the Codex is being placed in place which actually delimits food value. Oh, you can have all the food you want and starve to death while you're eating it if there's no nutrients. Cassidy: Right. Absolutely. Burisch: When I start hearing that food is being used as a weapon and it's being used concerning the use of fossil fuels, I start getting personally angry. There's not one person in the lower latitudes that's worth any less than me. Cassidy: Right. Right. Burisch: You know, everybody is worth exactly the same thing on this Earth and unfortunately there are individuals who feel otherwise. Cassidy: I understand. OK. So Bill, the question you're asking: First of all, you mentioned Will Uhouse. Burisch: The son of Bill Uhouse. Cassidy: The son of Bill Uhouse. Burisch: Right, right.

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Cassidy: He's very well known. We didn't realize that it was actually ... that it was the son you were saying who had access to that technology. Burisch: Yes. Yes. Bill was the builder of the avionics and the testing equipment who back-engineered ARV testing equipment and avionics. I actually saw some of the equipment (and this is in the tape that Marcia and I did) ... in a room. I actually saw some of the equipment, some of the diagnostic equipment, in the B-bay, underneath the Galileo bay, that he actually built. And so when I started describing it, Will looked at me and said, “Oh, that's what my Dad built.” So we had a very nice little connection there. Cassidy: So are you saying ... Burisch: But it's Will who had experience around the Looking Glass equipment in the 70s. His son, Bill Uhouse's son. Cassidy: And Will Uhouse IS alive now? Burisch: Yes. Of course. Cassidy: OK. Because that's very interesting ... Burisch: And his wife, Teri. They, in fact, from what I understand, they met during the course of conversations concerning our information coming to the public. Teri and Will met one another, fell in love, and were married. That makes me feel kind of personally really good. Cassidy: [smiles and laughs] OK. Well, so it sounds like Will knows quite a bit about what makes the ARV run, then ... Burisch: Uh huh. Cassidy: If his father had something to do with the back-engineering. Burisch: Uh huh. Yes. Cassidy: OK. So in 1947, when the Cube was discovered, it must have really screwed up the idea of the two timelines by bringing in the ability to ... I mean, I don't know what the two can and can't do ... Burisch: Well, first of all, the Cube actually was not discovered in 1947. There's a mixture of the stories involved. The Cube was actually ... The information about the Cube and its existence was known as of 1946. It was further discussed in 1947 after a certain crash in a Midwestern, lower, Southwestern state, New Mexico, and following which, during the first brokering for treaties by the Orions with Eisenhower, the Cube was handed to Eisenhower. It was in fact expected to go to the United Nations authorities and it was in fact spirited away by the United States military.

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Cassidy: OK. Burisch: They didn't hand it over. Cassidy: But the way you're talking about the Cube is that it sounds like it connects emotionally with the viewer, in a sense. Burisch: It does. And in fact it was handed ... It was actually Orion technology. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: And it was handed over by them in a spirit of goodwill but a mis-assessment as to our evolutionary state, our ability to handle the issue. And handle the equipment. They felt us more balanced than what we actually were. Cassidy: OK. Well this opens almost Pandora's Box in the sense of United States history. Burisch: That is Pandora's Box. Yes. I'm not exactly certain what was seen relative to Cube for 911. However, the analysis which I was asked to do ... (of course I paid the price of having actually done it. Again, people don't want to hear the answers that I came up with.) But ... the analysis that I did indicated that certainly there is, at minimum, a great suspicion concerning the delay of response. And information that I have directly from one of the formerly seated members was in fact that we were aware (but this was Looking Glass technology, not the Cube) ... Cassidy: I understand. Burisch: That we were aware as of the middle 1990s that there would be a coming Islamic extremist war with the United States. We were also aware of certain alternative situations that they used the statistics from the Looking Glass for the variability between the different pictures to show that would be occurring at the same time, the other probability at the same time. And, from their perspective, that the least of the two consequences was 9/11. I am aware of what the other possible consequence was. I'm not willing to come out and start mentioning it because I don't know what the consequences are of speaking of things that have not thus far happened, yet the probabilities existed that they could. Cassidy: Yeah. Burisch: So, you know, I'm feeling a little bit ... There's a little weight when it comes to that, but ... Cassidy: OK. You're saying though, that the Looking Glasses have been, as you called it, decommissioned. Burisch: Yes, ma'am. Cassidy: And that means across the board. 125 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: Across the board. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: They are shut down. Cassidy: And you said there was 50 man-made devices. And I'm assuming ... Burisch: I said at least 50. Cassidy: ... that would access, or create, Stargates out of natural vortexes. Burisch: Yes. They would suck them in and make them available. Cassidy: And a Looking Glass is not the same as a Stargate. Burisch: No. A Looking Glass is a back-engineered form from the original cylinder-seal descriptions on how to build the units that made Stargates, so that ... in essence y ou could take a Looking Glass unit and make a couple changes to the equipment, l ift it up on an angle, put field posts around it and open up a hole to step through. Cassidy: Sure. OK, but the Looking Glass can show you the future. So are we saying ... Burisch: Future probabilities. Not the future. Cassidy: OK. So are we saying there were 50 Looking Glasses in operation as well as ...? Burisch: Oh no. There were much less. We had a basic monopoly over the Looking Glass. That and India. India brokered early on with Indira when Indira Gandhi was brokering the Committee of the Majority between the United States and the Soviet Union because the Soviets were threatening to start their own treaty system up with the extra terrestrials, which would have become untenable. We agreed then to expand MJ-12 from a wholly operated and owned American operation to an international operation. Thus was born the Committee of the Majority between 1963 and 1967. And when that information was brokered, that happened in parallel with, kind of under the table but in parallel with the United Nations treaties involving things like the test ban treaty and the outer space treaty. And so it was being done at the same time under cover of UN support. The diplomats were going back and forth and brokering the opening up, so that the treaty system would be a single treaty system and thus tenable and manageable, to, hopefully, a good outcome. And we'll be knowing within the next few years whether that was successful.

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Cassidy: OK. So this is really fascinating. You're saying that some other countries, India for one, had access to Looking Glass technology. Burisch: Yes, ma'am. They had that written in as far back as the 1960s and 1970s when it was actually being back-engineered from the Stargate material. And so at the same time that Will Uhouse, for instance, was looking at the early generation Looking Glass, India had the same. Cassidy: OK. And are you at liberty to say what other countries had access to that? Burisch: To the information? Or to the equipment? Cassidy: To the Looking Glass, to a Looking Glass, or the ability ... Burisch: No. Cassidy: ... to create a Looking Glass and look back ... look at time, look forward into their own history ... Burisch: No. No. Cassidy: Was that not acceptable? Burisch: No. No. And I'll tell you why the answer is no. Within the treaties, the Looking Glass as well as the Stargates, as well as the Cube, and the “information movement pods,” are all contained within the treaty system. Within that treaty system it also prohibits and allows certain passage of information amongst delegates on where the Looking Glass material is and where the information flow is, what the access is. Being that I stood in Bandelier and considered a delegate, therefore I cannot tell you. Cassidy: OK. So you can't tell me who has ... Burisch: No. Cassidy: ... access to that technology. Burisch: Aside from India and the United States. No. Cassidy: OK. Right. But we can assume that some countries perhaps, that is, the leadership of some countries, may have had access to this technology at some point. Burisch: I think that it's fair to say that we can assume that they had access to the information from it. But I wouldn't place any characterization over any assumption of who may or may not have had it. Cassidy: OK. All right, well, I think ... Burisch: I thank you for the question, though. 127 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Cassidy: OK. But it also gives you a whole different way of looking at history. I mean, certainly ... Burisch: Indeed it does. Cassidy: I mean... You know, this stuff has got to be kind of as natural to you as, you know, getting up in the morning, you know, and having a cup of coffee. This is all part of your world view. Burisch: Nah ...There is nothing as natural to me as getting up and having my cup of coffee! [big laugh] Cassidy: OK. Burisch: And we should have never built... The Stargate, yes, OK, for the purpose of speaking with the visitors from the other timelines. Yes, absolutely. But Looking Glass, no. That was done because of our own shortcomings as people who aspire to things that we maybe shouldn't try to grab ahold of. Cassidy: Well ... Burisch: It should never have been built. Cassidy: It gives you power, right? We're talking about power, and the misuse of power here. Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: I mean, bottom line, right? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: So ... Burisch: And I am an advocate against that misuse. In fact ... Well, I could say against the misuse ... I am against its use. Period. Cassidy: OK. So let's say one has the Looking Glass, and you're saying it shows probabilities, and one of the things we were wondering is: How does it do that? Burisch: Well, from the best I understand (and I was speaking with Bill just a little while about it, a little while ago), the rings and the amount of information via energy which is passed into it. And I've got to be very careful with this ...The position of the rings, their orientation, the energy running through them, the position of the barrel, etc - because you can raise the barrel up on an armature inside the center of it – all come into play as if you have an onion with the various layers of the onion. As you move through the different energy levels you also move through the different layers so you get different bits of information. Now, imagine an almost infinite number of layers overlaying in 128 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

comparison to the positions of the rings and an almost infinite amount of energy that you can add or subtract, tuning it up, tuning it down. Cassidy: Well, it sounds sort of like ... Burisch: Instead of going up by 1 hertz or 2 hertz, maybe by a thousandth of a hertz up and down. Cassidy: OK. But it sounds like you're working with ... almost like a kaleidoscope effect. You know, like a kaleidoscope, a real kaleidoscope, the way you would turn and twist and focus and each time you get a different design. Right? Burisch: Right, except ... Cassidy: The design and the colors change. Burisch: You get a different design and the colors change but it's like working with multiple kaleidoscopes where, when you find two different probabilities that you would run into, you have two kaleidoscopes and you make a change on one kaleidoscope that may factor or function to a different angular change on another kaleidoscope. So you get two separate pictures that you then have that are flashing back and forth. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: But yes. Cassidy: OK. So, is ... Burisch: That's the best analogy I can ... Cassidy: Is there an interface with a computer to get these read-outs ... Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: ... of the probabilities? Burisch: Yes. In fact there's a de-interlacing system which they used to actually de-interlace the flashing back and forth of the two probabilities or the multiples that they had at certain times when it starts skipping ... Cassidy: You could freeze them, right? So you could look at them closer? Burisch: What they did is that they de-interlaced the video and then reintegrated the video and watched the individual videos and then determined statistically how much time was spent on each video to determine the amount of probability of each event occurring. And they tested that against 129 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

probabilities in the field and probabilities of future occurrence to get a system which functioned scientifically. And that's ... Cassidy: OK. And so, well, I'm going to go with that and I'm going to actually say that what they might have been doing is then looking back to see ... In other words, if they saw an event in the Looking Glass, all they had to do was calibrate, or look at the different possibilities to see which one happened and then ... Burisch: That's what they did. Cassidy: ... as time went on ... Burisch: Absolutely. That's right on it. That's right on. That's right on the beam. And you know, some people like to say ... Some people say it's blue smoke and mirrors, but, then again, I was told something in 2001 that I'm living in right now. OK? Cassidy: OK. Burisch: OK? Without going to what it is. And, like I said, we'll talk about that in the future. But it's the best scientific equipment that I can imagine for the determining of such a thing. But it goes to the old question: Just because we have the power to do something, should we? Cassidy: Sure. Burisch: And I am a 100% advocate. She and I [gesturing toward Marcia] had a more than a small dustup out at Frenchman Mountain over this very same thing, which actually resulted in me walking alone down Lake Mead back toward Las Vegas, with she and I yelling and screaming at each other along the roadside. They were doing tests out at Frenchman Mountain during the time that the Rosen Bridge was being accessed there - the Einstein-Rosen Bridge - with the equipment. They had the curtains up and all of that business, enough where Metro couldn't see it from the top of the mountain and all that. And they were accessing there and there was a mistake and a small explosion out there on the east side of this little ... what we call the Conquistador Helmet. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: "Metro", referring to the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And she wanted me to go out there with her to help clean some the evidence up of it. And she and I got into more than a little dustup because I didn't want anything to do with it. Because I don't believe ... I'm no Luddite. I'm all for grand technology. But I don't believe in playing with things which actually deal with looking into the future. There's another issue that was going on at the time, in fact, the variety of communication which was going on via this equipment ...from elsewhere ... I presume ... she won't, still hasn't, won't admit to me, but I presume that it was from Orion and it was information, defense related information, on how 130 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

this type of equipment, how an Einstein-Rosen Bridge at a distance, could be used to pull information out of a defense computer system. Cassidy: Ah ha. Burisch: And I don't mean a U.S. defense computer system. I said, “You know what? NO.” Look, we've got the technology here. We've got the talent. We've got the willpower and we've got the willingness to defend our own country without the use of something involving time technology. I wouldn't want to go up against, for instance, god help us, the Chinese, on the ground. But at the same time, I don't fear their country either. I believe that we should be diplomatic with them and have a firm understanding and a respect for one another. But I also don't fear them. And so, the use of the technology like that is not honorable, to me. Cassidy: Right. Well, it's like knowing how the game plays out means you can play to your advantage ahead of time in making sure that that eventuality will occur. Burisch: That's why I as so interested in... When I was doing my time ... During my time with the jobs involving safety and security training and all that here in Las Vegas, when I was interacting with Marcia and the Eye because we were literally on a daily basis talking about that same thing. And about the psychology of individuals who come to a table to play a game and who cheat to alter the outcome of the game. And that whole psychology is something which I'm not ... you know, is not foreign to me and so that helped, if you will, prime the wick of the explosion between myself and that variety of technology, which actually primed my disagreement with them. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: The "Eye" is a reference to the 'Eye in the Sky' or 'Casino Surveillance'. Cassidy: OK. Well, I understand what you're saying and there's a million questions that all of this .. Burisch: I know, I know. Cassidy: ... raises and I know don't have all night, but I would like to ask ... Burisch: There's 30 of them here. [laughs] Cassidy: Now that I know what I know and what you've at least communicated, you're saying you don't want to use the Looking Glass for advantage over country to country, but what about country to offworld ... Burisch: No no no no. It shouldn't be used at all. Cassidy: OK. I understand, but ... Burisch: All right?

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Cassidy: But, is there something there? I mean, in other words, is the technology something that they are using now to look at our relationships with, because ... Burisch: [shakes head no] The technology is not being used at all right now. Cassidy: OK. But the reason it's not used now is because of where we're going into the galactic ... the plane of the ... Burisch: [nods head yes] As of about 2017 I would expect that probably that all of these little pieces of equipment will probably all get reassembled, yeah. Cassidy: Turned back on. Burisch: Oh sure. Cassidy: 2017? That's quite a while ... Burisch: 2016, 2017. Cassidy: Not until then? Burisch: Probably not. Cassidy: Do you mean ... Burisch: I'm figuring that they're probably going to act conservatively on this. That's what all the people of wisdom have suggested to them. Cassidy: Oh, wow. Burisch: Is to act conservatively. That yes, the so-called cycle of catastrophe, or season of catastrophe of Fulcanelli, the time period from, oh, right around 1992 to right around 2012, right around that area. While we will have passed it, passed 2012, we really ought to get through the entire cycle which is about 1980 to about 2016, to feel confident that the interpretation from the timeline from the future about their own catastrophe is not off by a few years. We're talking about 45,000 years or 52,000 years respectively. We have difficulty understanding what happened 2,000 years ago and we're talking about 50,000 years here. So, it's very wise for them to wait. Cassidy: OK. You mean turn ... The Looking Glasses are now decommissioned, but also the Stargate technology. Burisch: Yeah. Yeah, they're decommissioned and the Stargates and the Looking Glasses, I'm sure they're all in their little mothball containers and all of that and they have been separated ... The three components of each have been separated and moved to different power structures, diplomatic and 132 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

military authorities around the world. And we're talking about the EU specifically, the UN, and NATO. Those are in specific control of one of the three components each. And I cannot comment as to which component is contained by whom. Cassidy: OK. But you're saying there's no doubt whatsoever that all this technology has been decommissioned. Burisch: There is no doubt whatsoever when it comes to the Looking Glasses and when it comes to the Stargate technology that it has been decommissioned. And ... However, there are a few threats going on, ongoing threats, from present countries stating that they will put it together at their will, through their own self determination. And those countries, if push comes to shove, will be shoved. Cassidy: OK. Meaning ... Put it together now? Burisch: As in build one themselves now. Cassidy: Yes. That's what I meant. Burisch: Yes. What was extant has been collected. I'm under very good assurance that what was setting there has now been collected and decommissioned. Cassidy: OK. And we're assuming Iraq is one of those. Burisch: Oh, absolutely. Cassidy: They were able to pinpoint in the Looking Glass the very highest probability for those things to occur ... Burisch: That's true. That's true. And Bill was asking about a future date involving another thing and a year was given to me. And he was saying, well, if a year can be provided for that, why wouldn't a year be provided for the other? Cassidy: Right. Burisch: Well, there was a highest-probability year for it. However, telling me about something that might happen in the future involving a project which we're currently involved is one matter. Cassidy: Sure. Burisch: Willy-nilly throwing a date out which is a probability involving the lives and the destiny of all of us here on the Earth, specifically to a predicted four-and a half, or four billion peoples' deaths, is another matter that carries an entirely different weight with it. Cassidy: But are we to assume that we past that year yet? Or ... 133 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: You're not to ... No. You're not to assume. Cassidy: No. OK. So that's still in the offing. What we're looking at is a very low probability of the event or the set of events occurring ... at this point. Burisch: Yes. Yes. We're looking at a low probability of the higher catastrophic portion of the events occurring. I expect that the events which would kick it off are still gonna happen. For instance, the solar max which is coming at around 2012 and the expected loss of GPS equipment and things like that, which is out there as part of ... on the web you can find that. Engadget, I think, was one of the groups that spoke about the loss of GPS and satellite communications. Cassidy: You mean the electromagnetic grid is gonna go down. Burisch: Yes. Yes. And that would be the time that I would expect the highest probability of the T2 event, having correlated to the history of the J-Rods and the Orions. But that's as far as I can ... Cassidy: Wow. OK. Well, that's pretty close. Burisch: I can't give a date though. Cassidy: Yeah. I understand. Burisch: I can but I shouldn't because people will then target toward a date, and I ... Yeah, there are people out there now that are saying, “Yep, it's right around the corner at any moment now. Why won't the aliens save us? Cassidy: Yes. Burisch: We need to save ourselves. Cassidy: OK Burisch: And that's why the steps have been taken that have been taken in the world and are still under way, so that we will save ourselves. Bill Ryan: I have a question about the probabilities, Dan... the low probability. Dan Burisch: When you ask a question, I really ... [laughs] B: ...the low probability, according to what I understand what you said earlier, is 19%. Is that still valid? Because that's still playing Russian roulette with one bullet in a barrel of five.

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Burisch: Is it not. Actually it's slightly worse than that. In all honesty it's slightly worse than that, because there's only an 85% confidence level to that 19%. B: So that doesn't quite sound like we can all relax. Burisch: I don't think it's ... Well no, I don't think it's a question. I think we need to do the right things. And there was a correlation to the successful and unsuccessful outcomes which involved the people of the world being united in purpose for survival and for care for our world. And that's the reason why we did this crazy thing. And you know, it sounded crazy, it looked crazy, but we did it because it was the right thing to do and I ended up having to send a team of people out, canvassing the regular people of the world, and handing flyers out, stating that the time had arrived for us to pray for unity. And I would still encourage that seriously and sincerely. You know, I lost people. I was in charge of a team and some of them died as a result, well, a couple of them from accidents, and that, you know can happen anywhere, but a couple of them were put to death for proselytizing. And so I bear that on my soul now. Kerry: Were put to death for proselytizing ... Burisch: In a country where ... Cassidy: You mean China. Burisch: Ah ... there was in fact two deaths in China and we also lost some people in Saudi Arabia and a couple other places. I didn't make public how many-all we lost or how many-all we had but they did their jobs and the information was handed out and we did the best we could. Anyway, you were asking about the Stargate, the possible locations and all of that. [reading from a document] On June 16th of 2003, in RV Number 0403, Deborah was requested to do a remote viewing session, a sole one, a series of them in fact that she conducted, and she found several locations, among them was in fact Volochanka and she even said “to the north by the Tundra” in Russia and in the southwest Tibetan Mountains ... Tibetan Mountains (I'm sorry, I'm still a little bit ... thinking about my men and women.) Uh, I don't know how to pronounce this. In ... M-o-s-j-o-e-n ... in Norway and that was a big, big hullabaloo. There was one actually ... The equipment was actually removed from there. Syria. Turkey. Cassidy: You're saying she remote-viewed the locations of the Stargates. Burisch: In fact she did, and the reason why I reacted to pull this out. In your question #9 it says: “How many LGs are/were there? How many man-made Stargates? Where are they?” And you gave a list of possible countries. In that list you mentioned Bulgaria. Cassidy: Right.

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Burisch: Well, on the second page of it she's got the Pirin Mountains in Bulgaria listed, so I just wanted to kind of let you know. Cassidy: Thank you. Burisch: And a couple of points in Egypt, and she didn't in fact in this one mention Iraq because she was working separately for Iraq. On February the 4th of 2003 she did a special RV, says, “I came up with the following in my session. I saw a place 10 miles south-southeast of Baghdad.” This, by the way, is the place where we ended up actually raiding and removing what they thought were rings for what they called “Weapons of Mass Destruction.” Well, there were rings all right but it was a different kind of weapon of mass destruction. “I pictured a big tree on the ground surface of this location.” Now think about how Saddam was finally found. Cassidy: Yes. Burisch: “Behind the tree there was a hole in the ground and then a piece of wood over it. I saw a man looking and feeling like Saddam. A guard lifted the wood over the hole. Saddam then entered the hole adjusting the wood to look like a platform at the top of a set of stairs.” In remote viewing (I don't remote view), but in remote viewing, from everything I understand from her time gets mixed up, overlaid, and sometimes off-shifted, and she clearly saw him in the spider hole. She also indicated that she found the work area down there and in fact drew the work area which they ended up finding, and finding the one Gate in Iraq. Interesting stuff, huh? Cassidy: Yeah, absolutely. So, we're kind of getting off the topic a little bit ... Burisch: That's good. [laughs] Cassidy: ... of Stargates and all that. Burisch: Am I causing that? Cassidy: I'm sorry? Burisch: I said, am I causing that? I hope not. Cassidy: We know that Chi'el'ah escaped through a Stargate, with your assistance, because that was described in one of our last videos. Burisch: ET went home. Cassidy: Yes, ET went home.

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Burisch: Yep. Cassidy: And I ... The interesting thing about that is that you also had an experience in which you sort of fell into the Stargate and then kind of didn't go all the way, but stayed in this reality. Burisch: Well, kinda. Cassidy: Kinda? Burisch: I was expelled several yards away onto a slab of ... it was either limestone or granite, I'm not really sure, sandstone. All I know is that it was hard [laughs] when I landed on it and it was on the other side of the tarpaulin over... The area was separated, human/ET side, for the actual staging around the Stargate. It was a military operation. And I ended up on the other side of the barrier, which were like raised curtains, so that the people around the area who were actual inhabitants of the area, couldn't see. And I landed on that and I moaned or groaned or was wondering where I was and was in fact then approached by men in guns who were very upset with me. But ... Cassidy: OK, but so you saw the inside of a wormhole, right? Momentarily? Burisch: Oh ... I can't really say that. There was a gray curtain, almost a misty type curtain very similar to what I remember during the time that I was in a coma back in the '70s. And I saw certain things on the other side, but it was a flash, and that was about it, and nothing really remarkable to talk about. Cassidy: OK. So you never went through, all the way through. I mean, I'm asking ... did you or have you. Burisch: No. I was just ... No. I did not end up ...I do not remember ending up anywhere else. Cassidy: Have you ever gone through a Stargate? Burisch: No. no no. No. No. No. No, and there are no rotating ring-like devices where men with military equipment walk through and meet Ra on the other side and bring their nuclear weapons with them, no. No. There are ... yes, I'm being derogatory towards Serpo. Cassidy: I thought we were talking about Stargates. Burisch: Well, that's what Serpo came from ... I mean, this list of, “We've got our nuclear weapon with us,” and all this business. And they could have picked something better than the name Serpo if they were going to go with it, but ... Serpo is a reptile park in, what is it? Argentina? Or is it the Netherlands? It's the name of a reptile park. Cassidy: Uh huh. Burisch: And I think it was picked more by the former ops who were actually putting the disinfo together and what they did is that they just simply took a name and turned it backward. It was OPRES; it's a Cassidy-4 code. 137 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Cassidy: There are no Stargates in Serpo, in the Serpo story, as told to people. Burisch: OK. Cassidy: OK. But ... [to off camera: That's what I said.] So what I'm asking is ... we have Stargates, OK, that have been decommissioned which access time travel technology. Burisch: Yeah. Cassidy: OK. These Stargates, before they were decommissioned, we must assume were used. Burisch: They were used for passing information and passing inhabitants this direction. Cassidy: Oh, by other cultures coming this way but not by us going .. Burisch: By ... by P-45s and P-52s, both Orions and J-Rods. Cassidy: What about all the other...? I mean, I don't know if you're party to this, but how many other races are out there? Burisch: I am aware of one inter-dimensional species that won't speak with us directly and was communicating via the Orions, the P-52 Orions. That's it. You know I've been 20 years ... It's confusing to me because I've got so many people with such great certitude, and I've been 20 years around these people and either they were the greatest hiders in the world, even while drunk, and some of them drunk and recreationally drunk. (And that's the way and ... best ... I should put that; comes with large amounts of money. Sometimes they pay for products to make them feel good, or whatever...) I have never... It's been a joke. I hate to put it this way, but a lot of the UFO community, like, for them the stories have been a joke and a lot of them have been proffered by the folkloristic unit in Majestic. They actually promulgated a lot of these stories and now they hand me the bag to come out here and go, “Boo.” You know, “Sorry. The boogey man ain't real.” I guess the only thing that I'm aware of are the P-45s and the P-52s. The intergrades between them over the 7,000 years between them cannot be contacted, per treaty. The P-52s J-Rods and Orions I am aware of, and the P-45 J-Rods. At the time the P-45s were around, they were unaware that the P-52 Orions, which would then be P-45 Orions, even existed. They didn't even know that they still survived, at the time. And they only found out as a consequence of coming here and the treaty negotiations. Cassidy: OK, but what about the .... You're telling me that the Stargates were only used one way by ... Burisch: Used two ways, but one way by transport for delegates in. Cassidy: OK. And that was ...

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Burisch: And that was only under extreme circumstances involving international uproar when there were problems with the treaties. Aside from that, products were exchanged back and forth and information was exchanged but it was deemed too dangerous to be handing people back and forth regularly. These things collapse, from what I understand, spontaneously. And if it collapses and you are not out one side or in the other, you're nowhere. Cassidy: OK. So you're telling me that these people have such a conscience they were not sacrificing Americans or other, you know, or military people, to test the Stargate? Burisch: No. The treaties were basically inflicted on us by the Orions. As they were enforced upon us by the Orions that we needed to do what we needed to do when they figured out that we weren't able to handle the issue ourselves. They looked at their own history and said, “Huh, look at the cave men and women.” OK? After we acted the way that we acted involving the Cube and all of that business. They inflicted the treaty system on us and they said, ”You will behave this way.” We don't have the ability to just take a Stargate and to step through onto the other side without violating the treaty. They don't want us out there. We are dangerous to ourselves, so why would we not be dangerous to another culture? They are sure as hell not gonna let us off this planet. Cassidy: OK. Can I ask you ... Bill [off-camera]: You should ask about Montauk and Henry's experience. Cassidy: Well, yes. Burisch: I still, believe it or not, I still have not read about what Montauk is. Sitting here right now I have zero clue about what it even is. Cassidy: OK. That's cool. What about the Philadelphia Experiment? Are you familiar with that? Burisch: I am familiar with the reports of the USS Eldridge. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: I'm familiar with the unified field theory testing that went on. In fact the unified field theory testing did go on but it made something which was, from what I understand, radar-invisible but not involving everything that I've heard ... all of these other movies about people going back to 1941 and prior to Pearl Harbor and all of this business and walking the time tunnel, and all of this. The information that I've heard from the military sources – because I asked when I was in there because I knew about the Philadelphia Experiment from way back from hearing about it – that it was a legit experiment, that there was a legit experiment that went on but it provided radar invisibility and was an early cloaking system. And it was electromagnetic cloaking.

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Cassidy: OK. Now I'm wondering what ... Certainly Chi'el'ah gave you, sort of hidden cards in your hand that allowed you to get information from Majestic, or to trade information with Majestic such that you would learn what was going on in terms of the Stargates and everything. Burisch: Right. And if I tell you, that means that I'm telling that camera right there. [points into lens]. Cassidy: OK. And but if... Recently ... You know, I don't know if this is in the public domain, but recently you found out that MJ-1 had not told you everything about a certain incident. Burisch: Yes. True. Cassidy: OK, which was a meteor, incoming meteors ... Burisch: Yes. It was Apophis and the big thing is the affidavit that I wrote. And the dustup that happened between he and myself was based on the fact that he said ...And I told him not to lie to me again, and the reason why I told him not to lie me again ... It involved the time period where I was told to keep my mouth totally shut because of the timelines. Then I found out it was a bunch of garbage basically just to manipulate me to keep my mouth shut. And after that happened, then more votes were taken and then I was told to talk. I was given the orders to talk. Yo-yo. OK? When that happened I told him, “Don't lie to me anymore. Tell me, ‘It's none of your damn business,' if you have to. I can accept that better than being lied to.” It's more honorable. He said fine. Then I found out that because he had carried the attitude that the Magi were not closely watching anything like neodes, the near earth orbiting asteroids, or anything like that. They weren't concerned about it at all. Well then, subsequently during a conversation I found out that in fact they were. This caused a mild dustup that was then heightened because of information from her relative [indicating Marcia off camera]. The information from her relative was in fact that they were aware that there would be an Islamic attack upon the United States as early - meaning they were aware as early - as the mid 1990s that it would be coming sometime in the new millennium. Well, right on, smack on the beam. That made it worse. I had told him that if he ever lied to me again I would make him pay a price for it. The simple price was naming him. Cassidy: OK, but ... Burisch: And after that I, you know ... We sent ... There has been conversation with that particular individual since and everybody's OK with everybody. I mean, you know, 20 years, more than 20 years ... I first met the gentleman at the back of the LAMS, the museum, more than 20 years, since the 1970s. The relationship is not going to go by the wayside over a dustup. Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: LAMS: Los Angeles Microscopical Society. Cassidy: Sure. I understand. But what I'm ... The reason I'm alluding to that is that here's a case ... 140 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: I know what you're alluding to. Cassidy: OK. Where you don't know everything ... Burisch: No. I don't. Cassidy: ... about what's happening. Burisch: Thank God. Cassidy: And you haven't necessarily been clued in to everything. Burisch: No, I haven't. Cassidy: And so you are telling me that we don't go both ways in Stargates and this is what you've been told. Burisch: Uh huh. Cassidy: OK? And you are telling me that there is only two races, maybe a third, but you know ... Burisch: Three races plus us, maybe a fourth. Cassidy: OK. So all I can say here is ... This is interesting because we have gotten testimony from a lot of different witnesses, people who have different types of abilities, who have come from the inside, from Black Ops, like our Henry Deacon, telling us that we are accessing Stargates constantly and going in fact between the Earth and Mars and going between the Earth and the Moon and possibly other places as well. In other words, not just that we're staying out of space or out of the Stargates because the Orions tell us to. Burisch: They were used. They were used in timeline number two to gradually access Moon and Mars. Now, there is a possibility that the information that he has, or had, has to do with a future timeline. That would make sense to me on that level but not on the level of “Hey honey, let's take the kids to Olympus Mons today.” Cassidy: No, but how about if the military is sending equipment back and forth, etc etc? Burisch: Well, OK. The Orions could trust us so much where they could hand us a Cube and we misused it to the state that we misused it. Where they then had to inflict a treaty system upon us. Cassidy: Are they running our country? Are they running our world? Burisch: No. No. They're simply constraining what we're able to do. No. We're running our own show down here. Meaning, when I say we, I'm not talking about the common folks that are, you know, like being starved to death every day. We're running our own show politically down here. The statements 141 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

about ... well, these are mind-controlled this or that, you know, automatons working for the ETs and the government ...No no no no no. These are good hearted and black hearted people - both - all fighting each other to run the geopolitical scenario. hat is an honest assessment from what I've seen was going on. But we are constrained as to what we are allowed to do. Meaning where we are allowed presently to off-world. Cassidy: I understand. Burisch: You know ... very nice, very nice, we placed our hands on our hips and Underdog flew the American flag on the Moon and we showed ourselves so wonderful and all that over the Soviets. But that doesn't mean that we're quite able at this point to go and camp out for too long. Cassidy: OK, so now you're telling me why we're not, theoretically ...or we haven't gone back to the Moon. At least we're ... Burisch: Right, we're busy throwing sticks and stones at each other. And another reason why we cannot go back there, is part of the treaty system allows us to have a certain repository set somewhere on the Moon and that repository is presently there. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: And that is in case the T2 timeline should eventuate or there should be a geological or a global catastrophe of like size. Cassidy: OK. Was this what you called the Ark? Burisch: Yes. Yeah. Cassidy: OK. Which, from what I understand, used to exist here on the plant. Burisch: Well, in several pieces. Cassidy: Right. OK. So they took it up to the Moon somehow. Burisch: Yeah. It was assembled and it ... Cassidy: Did they use a Stargate? Burisch: No. No. That was going ... In fact they were building equipment up north from here and they ended up getting it about three-quarters of the way built. I actually told Bill Hamilton about this when we were walking on the Jeep Road out on Frenchman Mountain one night. “Well, where's it gonna go?” I looked like that [makes face] and kind of pointed up and there the orb was setting. And he says, “Ah.”

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Cassidy: OK. But you call it an Ark. Is this something ... Burisch: Well, it's a nickname for it. Cassidy: But it sounds like it's going to save creatures. Burisch: It's got genetic and tissue and other products. Cassidy: From us? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. Other creatures on the planet as ...? Burisch: Oh yes, yes. A very good biodiversity, yes. Cassidy: I see. And it's sitting on the Moon in case there's something very bad that happens down here. Is that the idea? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. From the Moon where does it go? Burisch: It doesn't. Cassidy: Oh really? But the Moon's not like, you know, the most inhabitable planet ... Burisch: No, but it's the place that we're allowed to be ... Right now. Do I sound like I'm weighing my words? Cassidy: [laughs] Yes. Yes. OK, well ... I mean ... Burisch: It's your job to ask the questions. It's my job to answer them as honestly and as truthfully as I am able while being honorable and beneficial. Cassidy: OK. And we do thank you for that, you know, regardless of what other people think. Burisch: Well I mean, you know, I ... [big sigh] Cassidy: There's a huge amount .... Burisch: I know the exact spot that the thing is setting there. All right? I know what it looks like, I know how many pieces there are. I was involved in looking at and assisting with the biospherics on it. I know exactly where it sets and what happens if I say exactly where it sets and something happens to it? 143 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Cassidy: Sure. Burisch: I can't take that on my back. Cassidy: I understand. Burisch: Go back to the '50s here for a second. Cassidy: All right. Burisch: An interesting thing happened ... You know, we were talking about the Cube and all of that and the meetings with Eisenhower and the Orions, the delegates .... An interesting thing ... [picks up document] And I'm just referring to this, of course because it happens to reference from the intelligence community, the appropriate event, albeit it was being said at the time during a different context. This is referencing a Hearing of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the nomination of Mike McConnell to be Director of National Intelligence. And this was at 2.30 pm eastern time on Thursday, February 1st, 2007. And Mr McConnell, the honorable vice-admiral, said the following: Quote: “Senator, some years ago, I think '50s, '60s, there was a battle in the community with regard to authorities for signals intelligence,” [of course ... signals intelligence ... communication, and ... people can read between the lines, I think] “...and decisions were taken finally to cause the Director of the National Security Agency to have responsibility for signals intelligence, or SIGINT, as we refer to it, with regard to establishing priorities overseeing the technology, insuring it's conducted in an appropriate way. The training standards are right and investments are correct, and so on.” I've got a little report here which was released on the 17th of February, 2003. This was actually sent to me by... Bill Hamilton! And it was written by a person named Matt Guza. I don't know who the person is aside from Director IC USUFOIC. And he reports the following: Note to the transcript from Marci McDowell: Matt Guza is/was Director I.C., USOFOIC. The file ID that Dan was referring to, coming from Bill Hamilton was AQPR17FEB0301-03. “Aquarius background. Aquarius and other information.” It says: “Aquarius findings described briefly below.” Because it was being ... For some reason Project Aquarius was being looked at very closely at the time. “Number 1: From what we have found, we believe that it started in 1953 alongside of the Project Blue Book or Deal.” Now ... '53 ... what happened in ‘53? This is pretty much around the same time ... general time frame as the Eisenhower thing... within a year? ‘53 was also the time when a certain craft dumped in Arizona, as I recall, right near Kingman, involving two P-45 JRods and a P-52. The P45 was the one met by Bill Uhouse and of course the P-45 was the P-52 ...I had the great honor. But ... [continues reading] “The theory on the drawing board at this time is that it started as an USAF black project and was overtaken by the intelligence community due to the content and the secrecy. From investigating the past interests of the USAF in UFOs, it seems that the USAF weighed their 144 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

investigation too much on non-scientific data. This would explain the need for the intelligence community investigation.” (We can read between the lines here.) “Herein, after finding, or seeing this, or due to other issues, the intelligence community took Aquarius out of the hands of the USAF.” Isn't it funny how these two things co-ordinate with one another? Cassidy: Well, what are you ... OK. What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that ... Burisch: That there was an obvious allusion ... an obvious allusion here, in the testimony to the honorable vice admiral McConnell, two situations which were going on during the 1950s involving the present relationship between we and the extra terrestrial species. Yep. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: There seems to be a rather direct correlation here. And then the fact that later on during the intelligence community interview of Mr. McConnell there was even an allusion to timeline changes. [Continues reading] “Senator Rockefeller:” [smiles, gestures: Does my heart good to say his name...] “I regret to say that my time has run out and I think somebody's manipulating this clock. Because that much time hasn't gone by. Oh my heavens.” And then a woman walked in who was from another committee and that would be Susan Collins, I believe. But, the fact that there was a manipulation of a clock comment going on and ... there are several ... well, I've got it tabbed up [refers to paper in hand] as to the relationships here, but what I'm trying to, I guess, show the folks is how things are said publicly. Cassidy: Yes. Absolutely. So, but what is interesting is how many in Congress know what is really being said? Burisch: Well, the head of the committee here ... This committee was chaired by [referring to the document] John Burisch. Rockefeller IV, Democrat, of West Virginia. And there is a ... Cassidy: I have no doubt that Rockefeller is in the loop. Burisch: Well I have, I have little doubt that he is in the loop as well and may have been in the larger loop as opposed to not the Majestic-12 loop... Anyway ... Cassidy: He's a member of the Illuminati? Burisch: Oh, No. No no no no no. There was a larger group that existed between '63 ... '67 properly, and approximately 2002 called the Committee of the Majority. Cassidy: Oh, OK, well then ... Burisch: I mean, you've got people like Rockefeller that can call the war that happened in 1991 as the Persian Gulf Procedure. [smiles] That's right, he actually called it the Persian Gulf Procedure.

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Cassidy: Fascinating. Burisch: It wasn't a procedure that I was in, but anyway ... Cassidy: Well, OK. But we've heard that since then it's now called ... There are 40 members that it's called ... isn't it the PI-40? Burisch: That's an old name. Cassidy: That's an old name? Burisch: That's an old name for it. Cassidy: So what you're saying or what is being said here is that there is some catastrophic event that has been mitigated to some degree, hopefully, by a certain amount of unity on the planet and a certain amount of effort towards the positive. And I'm assuming the ... Burisch: And removal of equipment, yeah. Cassidy: OK but they removed the equipment because the equipment told them to remove it? In other words ... Burisch: They removed the equipment because the history indicated that the equipment was operating during the time of the catastrophe and was a proximate cause to the catastrophe by increasing the amount of energy into our asthenosphere and causing a global catastrophe of geo... Cassidy: Well, that, in a sense the equipment was telling ... You know, it's almost like ... Burisch: Well it was the equipment and it was the delegates. It was also the delegates to the treaties and the representatives, including Chi'el'ah. Cassidy: The Orions were saying, “Hey. Hey guys, it's the equipment. Shut it down and you'll have better luck”? Burisch: They were ... they were the leading force in that, yes. Cassidy: Really. OK. Now I'm gonna ask you something that may come across a little controversial, but ... Burisch: [jokingly] Noo! We have been talking about such prosaic items all evening ... I'm not certain I could ... Cassidy: What makes you think that they have our best futures in mind when they told us to turn that equipment off? In other words, why should we believe them?

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Burisch: Well, we should believe them simply because of the possibility and because we are talking about four and a half billion, up to five 5 billion people here, all right? Now let's think about this for a moment. If we leave the equipment in place and nothing happens. So what? What is the harm in removing it? Cassidy: Right. Burisch: Now that would be the corollary question to the question that you just asked. If they don't have our best interests at heart, how would our removing that equipment prevent the catastrophe that we're hearing about from three different cultures? ... Meaning the Orions, the J-Rods and the JRods from an earlier time. How would removing that equipment proximate the catastrophe? Only leaving the equipment in place would be the dangerous move. So there's no harm in turning .. in unloading a gun, but there is a possible harm in having it loaded. Cassidy: Sure. It's like the joke of believing in God. It's like the ‘60s joke about whether to believe in God or not. If you believe in God and there is no God, there's no harm. But if you do believe in God and there is a God, it's going to be a good thing in the end, right? Burisch: Well, it may take you a few more trips back, but ... Cassidy: [laughs] OK. So ... Burisch: I don't know. That's up to God. [laughs] Cassidy: Well, in a sense that's what you're saying. Burisch: You know this is an issue of practicality. You know, if we have a piece of equipment there that could possibly cause us harm. Let's say they're wrong and it doesn't. You better pull it apart anyway. We're talking about, you know, the consequence of nearly five billion people. We would be stupid not to, in other words. Cassidy: OK. What about the natural Stargates that still exist on the planet? Burisch: What has been heard from my background concerning the natural Stargate issues is what was going on at Frenchman Mountain and to access that they were using one of the Stargate devices. They had it hauled out there. Cassidy: OK. In mean, for example, Sedona has several vortexes. Burisch: Oh sure, they're all over the place. Cassidy: Yes. And there are several natural vortexes, you know ... even a cyclone or a hurricane creates a sort of a vortex.

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Burisch: Sure. Cassidy: OK. Through which certain races can travel in their ships, it is said. OK? Burisch: OK. Cassidy: Do you have anything to say about that? Burisch: No ... Cassidy: Those are natural Stargates ... Burisch: Meaning a portal which does not require hardware? Cassidy: Sure. Burisch: Well. I don't know. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: I don't know. Well, I guess I could probably make some sort of a comment relative to Lotus. There is a possibility that the portals that we're seeing during Project Lotus may be micro-wormholes. And certainly at least information is being carried through those portals from somewhere to here and it's causing an effect in the environment. Now we're assessing presently to see whether or not they're naturally produced. And in August, according to certain circumstances, we're planning on running tests out at Frenchman Mountain to determine whether or not it is a natural phenomenon. Possibly. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: I mean, you know, you could say that a travel in time could be a warp produced by a gravimetric device of a craft and could move large distances in little to no time. So I'm not certain what the difference is physically or mathematically between that and what is being called an Einstein-Rosen Bridge. You would need a physicist for that. I'm used to working on cells and ... Cassidy: Right. But. You know ... and in a sense if Lotus is creating some kind of Stargate effect ... Burisch: That's wonderful. Cassidy: ... or micro-wormhole ... Burisch: That's wonderful if it is.

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Cassidy: It is wonderful, but in a sense you might also have to let go of Lotus in that sense if it's going to impact ... Burisch: Oh, I have. I have, in effect. But for more tangible reasons. We brought the fine art of producing these portals for demonstration up to a science. We knew exactly what to do ... know exactly what to do ... to propagate them with nearly 100% efficiency. They range in size, thus far that we've seen, between about .02mm or about 20 microns, up to a millimeter. When we produce them now in the field they are approximately a millimeter in diameter and that's putting a heck of a lot of energy in, 50 times more energy than what we would do through the microscope. But we brought it to the point where it was a beautiful thing, where I could hook the right optics train on the scope, propagate with the use of a laser, and electricity ... and turn around immediately on the surface of silicate. And then we started getting things coming through on this end, or at least results in the medium around the crystal or around the silicate material that we were using, which were not normal. Cells of anomalous origin. Self-organizing cells which appeared to be organizing. In one case we did a variant of the ancient Lazaro Spallanzani experiment - historic experiment - concerning beef broth, to rule out spontaneous generation. And we had a very nice AB/AB neuronal type pattern formed by cells that were self-organizing and there were clearly ... Morphologically they appeared like neurons in the soup that we had. And so we had some real problems developing. We had two other consequences where we had what were produced were anomalous cells of unknown quality and ... Cassidy: ... coming through ... Burisch: Well, what we had is we had an organization, I think, going on, on this end. Now we're coming very close and more is going to be said in about a year about this, but we're coming close to determining the mechanism and what it appears thus far is that there is a ... an opening to a somewhere which is then placed in communication with our environment acoustically and then there is a series of reactions with micro-shards of silicate material or micro-shards of quartz in our environment which then become actually spontaneously, or nearly so, enclosed with material from our environment. And they move off to various locations and actually have effects on target cells in our environment. And so, it's apparently based acoustically. Cassidy: Well that's understandable, although it's complex and I'm not a biologist so I don't pretend that I understand all of it. But I understand where you're going with this. But you still ... In essence, to get back to Stargates, because that's the subject of this ... Burisch: Really! Am I still ... Cassidy: No, you're there, but the thing is that what I'm curious about is ...

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Burisch: I'm loosening the lock on the camera so it drags ... [laughs] Cassidy: ... is ... I'm actually curious whether or not these natural Stargates that do occur in nature are not being accessed by beings, whether they be the Orions or whoever, at will, into this dimension. Burisch: Well, I've got no information that the P-52 Orions or P-52 J-Rods or the P-45 J-Rods are accessing such a system save the use of time travel technology, gates that move one spot to another and than the use of craft for moving from there to here ... meaning to ... from a spot in Reticulum, for instance, to a place in the Aquarius system, Gliese ... or however it's properly said ... and then, which is the origin, from what I understand, of Project Aquarius itself because they were known to be coming from that direction. And that is, I believe, in the Aquarius constellation. But ... Cassidy: Because they're not ... Burisch: They use craft, then, to move from there to here but they're using a gravimetric technology to warp time-space, so I suppose that could be the same use. But I don't think it's a situation kind of like, you know, you walk out into a wilderness and see a whole parade of people coming through a Stargate with, you know, 4 heads and 16 eyes, and things like that. Cassidy: Well what about a parade of craft? Burisch: I don't know. That's the best answer I can give. It's the most honest one I can give. I don't know. I have not in 20 years of history ... of history with Majestic, heard of anything like that from them, meaning as part of either a treaty system or an ongoing operation. However, I've also heard reports of craft being seen in the sky. I've seen craft in the sky which I was not directly involved like the Mae Boyar Park incident in ‘73. I've seen what I believe ... Well I will have to say lights in the sky, not craft. Cassidy: We've seen lights .... Burisch: She [indicating Marci] has seen craft, and, you know, she's not feeding me full of a line of bull. Cassidy: Many nights you can stare at the sky and see craft zipping around. Burisch: Well there are meteors too, and there are also experimental aircraft of various types. There also back-engineered aircraft which are being spotted too. Cassidy: OK, but according to what you're saying there is a treaty in which we have Stargates or access to wormholes that we mechanically opened and closed ... Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: ... based on a treaty system in which we were allowed to get information, and send information back and forth but that we didn't use to go out but they used to come in ... 150 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: Substantially, yes. Cassidy: OK, but we closed all those down, according to what you're telling us ... Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK. So now I'm asking ... Burisch: Where's the Yellow Book? [laughs] Cassidy: No. No. But if there are natural Stargates out there that they can use any time they want. So they no longer have use of our Stargates. So in the sense of a treaty, they have access anywhere, any time ... Burisch: OK, if they do, let's posit if they do for a moment. The ones that we have to be concerned about would be the P-45s because they are looking to justify their own history. They would be very happy, aside from being paid off constantly, they would be very happy to see their own history justified. Cassidy: How are they paid off? Burisch: They're paid off with technology, with assistance. In the past they were paid off with a certain number of abductions per year. Cassidy: What would they do with those people? Burisch: Aside from a longitudinal genetic drift study? That's enough. You know, people were, some of them were literally handed over and I consider it illegal and I consider it a violation of international law. I consider it a crime against humanity and that's why I did what I did to stand up against it as best as I could. And to get it off the books. Cassidy: What about the idea that some P-45s have shape-shifted, you know, (excuse the terminology) but, into human form are here working in the government under a human form furthering their own, you know ... Burisch: It is a substantial probability that they have the ability because I've interacted with ones that would ostensibly look human and I really don't like talking about the so-called Men in Black, or Men in Black phenomenon. Cassidy: But when you talk the Men in Black, those were people that, or beings, that ... and you went in, in our last discussion into quite a description of that kind of thing. But I'm talking about somebody who is acting like you and me, looking like you and me, absolutely undetectable ... Burisch: No. Cassidy: ... and still could be furthering OR could even be ... 151 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: If they are, they're not J-Rods. If they are, they're not J-Rods. Orions? Possible. Possible. They are very, very brilliant people. The short interactions, the very short interactions that I had with them I was very impressed... Whereas I would not want to be spending that much time around P-45s at all, I would have enjoyed, in fact I would have felt privileged, speaking with them further. Cassidy: Are you talking about ... When you say Orions, are you talking about the Nordics? Burisch: I think that's how they're usually ... They've been called Talls. They're essentially, you know, the anthropomorphic very tall human beings with blond hair, very large eyes, very blue, pretty eyes. Larger than our eyes, as in ratio to cranium size. The orbits are larger, etc. They're just brilliant, just absolutely brilliant people. And what I found most intriguing about them was how they modulated what I consider their brilliance through emotion. The emotions coming from them were so less rudimentary, they were so more complex than what even I experienced with Chi'el'ah. I would have really enjoyed spending some more time with them. Cassidy: OK, but they're here on this planet interacting with us, isn't that so? Burisch: Well they interacted with us. I'm not certain if there are presently any on Earth or not right now. I would say that, that, you know, they're 50,000 years or a little more than that ahead of us, but given the similarity between body structure, between size, even, and body structure, except for thoracic ratio ... similar enough. I think they could probably, if their eyes didn't look the way their eyes look, they could probably get away with walking around. But their eyes are way larger than ours. And they look essentially like these Bratz dolls that the little tween girls are going after nowadays. You know, the eyes are too large. You see these eyes, these hypersized eyes. I mean, it's fine on a Bratz doll but if you walk this thing out on to the street, it's going to get picked out very quickly. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: I just don't think so. Now, at the same time I have to say ... are they smart enough to probably get away with it, figure out how? Maybe. Maybe. I doubt it personally, because, you know .... I've met a lot of very interesting, but a lot of ... a few strange people in the last four and a half years talking with the public, who believe that there are literally reptilians walking around that are wearing masks and things like that. No. You know, I'm a little more rooted in reality. I hate to put it that way but, no. I joked with her [gesturing to Marci off camera] that I wanted to do something over at the first place where we were at for my debriefing. I said when the debriefing gets done what I wanted to do is I wanted to hire some special effects people for real [lKerry is laughing]. We would end the debriefing then we would stop and then we would being filming with another camera. I was gonna ... I was just suggesting a joke. It never got pulled off. Somebody ... [Marci says, off-camera: 'No way.' Dan laughs.] What I was going to 152 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

do was have a special effects person work up ... work me up with my face over the top of a reptilian face. And I was going to rip it off and go, “God, I'm tired of these human masks!” And just have this little segment put out there as a joke. But she told me that people would take it seriously. [Marci, off-camera]: You can't do that... people would believe it! Kerry: It's true. Burisch: I don't know. I've got a strange sense of humor, I guess. Cassidy: OK. But you have been dealing with P-45s and P-52s and these beings are ... their treaty system is being adhered to because they are here in underground bases monitoring us at all times because otherwise how do they know that we are abiding by the Tau treaty? Because supposedly we broke treaties. Isn't this right? Burisch: Well, we have ... we have, ah, strained ... Oh-ho, I've gotta be ... We have strained the treaty system more than once. So have the P-45s. Cassidy: Right, so ... Burisch: We have in fact come into conflict with one another at certain times. These conflicts have been amicably resolved and we are presently in an amicable state with one another. We're not the only ones with the Looking Glass technology that can look in to other timelines. In other words, they have the equipment too. And so it's not that difficult for those who might be to wishing to enforce the treaty on their great-great-ancestors to look in to the present time as an expression of them looking into their own past and watching it change. Cassidy: OK, so in a sense you're saying they know what we're going to do before we do it. Burisch: They know the probabilities and so they are substantially capable of interacting with us if they feel that those probabilities are moving to eventuate their own history as they have it written for them. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: The P-52s define that as an unacceptable outcome. Cassidy: So they're pushing their advantage whenever they can? Burisch: They're pushing the advantage of not justifying their own past so that they may either split off on their own timeline, but that their own history would not eventuate a catastrophe. Now if you consider that pushing their own advantage, sure. Now the P-45s ... The characterization that you place - pushing their own advantage - I would say that that was an appropriate characterization.

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Cassidy: Well, I was ... Burisch: Yeah. Yeah, the P-52s are much more amicable and a little further along. I'll just say that they are a little more spiritually adept, the P-52 Orions, certainly, more than the P-45 J-Rods. They are extremely mechanical, very very logical, yet ruthless. Extremely ... Cassidy: You're speaking of the P-45s? Burisch: Yeah, they have no problem picking up somebody like me out of the middle of a park and shoving a probe up his wazoo to test him, yeah. And they've got no problem with that at all. I have, however, a substantial problem with that and I think other folks who have been largely abducted, not everybody, but, you know, a fair number of them also have a problem with that. Cassidy: OK. What about the idea that ... We have somebody, Jim Sparks. I don't know if you know who he is. He's written a book called The Keepers. Burisch: I'm aware of Jim Sparks as he is the personal friend of a couple of folks with whom we became close acquaintances, and ... OK. Cassidy: OK. So he's telling us that he has conscious recall of his abduction experiences. Burisch: Uh huh. Cassidy: And that groups of people were abducted by what sounds like P-45s because they have real issues with control, and put in ... Burisch: Boy, that was said nicely. Cassidy: [laughs]... and put in front of computer screens and shown scenes of the Earth... first a beautiful Earth, and potentially fantastic futures, and then shown the opposite of that, so that what would be generated in these people is a love of the planet and a desire to make it a better place. Burisch: Uh huh. And also there is an aim to this. They are aware that our emotions affect our state, our physical state. That our orientation to the energies which are available from the cosmos, if you will, affect the state of our DNA, affect the state of our health and they are applying that as an experimental protocol, a rubric, if you will, to change the state of the people onboard so that they can sample them for biological material. The fact of what we take away from it is beside the point. That is just whatever we take away and it's our take on it and a person, an experiencer, if you will, then goes off into our world and says how he or she feels about the experiment or about what they were subjected to or about what they were shown. But there is a cold hard cruel reality involved here that we are being picked up for biological material as an experimental protocol. Cassidy: OK, meaning, what these people that are being abducted are doing is, providing DNA, providing eggs and sperm so that they can, what? Experiment or create their own future humans? 154 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

Burisch: What they're trying to do is that they're trying to ameliorate their own neuropathology which is already starting, and is becoming an issue within their populace at their timeline, concerning reproduction. Cassidy: So how many people do they need to figure that out? Burisch: Well, as many as what they wanted to take until they get the answer figured out, and they really don't care because it's the old proposition of the anthill along the side of the road in Africa. You know, we are to them, from their perspective, the ants on the anthill, and how would we feel about stepping on one or two ants or a few million ants out of an anthill? It may cause a few people with I consider higher intelligence, some moral problems just stepping on them, but you know, how much would we really care about that? They feel that way about us. They want to use us as biological material, watch us get destroyed to justify their own background, their own history, and at the same time take the biological material from us and solve their own personal present problems. Cassidy: OK, but how are we fighting them? Burisch: What do you mean? Cassidy: In other words, you've just told me they have a tremendous amount of control, they're abducting a huge number of people, and they're continuing their experiments. Burisch: Well, they have. The numbers who are being abducted now are not treaty related. In other words, there is nobody being taken presently ... zero ... authorized by treaty. I can't stop them from taking people out of their beds at night but I did influence the other. To Kerry: Is it rolling? Cassidy: I'm rolling ... [mumbled voices] Burisch: H.G. Wells ... The epilogue in his Time Machine ... The Time Machine, by H. G. Wells ... I keep this on my desk. Cassidy: OK. Burisch: It says [reading]: “One cannot choose but to wonder will he ever return? It may be that he swept back into the past and fell among the blood-drinking, hairy savages of the age of unpolished stone, into the abyss of the Cretaceous sea, where among the grotesque saurians, the huge reptilian brutes of the Jurassic times, he may even now, if I may use the phrase, be wandering on some plesiosaurus-haunted oolitic coral reef or beside the lonely saline lakes of the Triassic age. Or did he go forward into one of the nearer ages in which men are still men, but with the riddles of our own time answered and its wearisome problems solved, into the manhood of the race? For I, for my own part, cannot think that these latter days of weak experiment, fragmentary theory, and mutual discord are indeed man's culminating time. I say for my own part. He, I know, for the question had been discussed 155 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

among us long before the Time Machine was made, thought but churlishly of the advancement of mankind and saw in the growing pile of civilization only a foolish heaping that must inevitably fall back upon and destroy its makers in the end. If that is so, it remains for us to live as though it were not so. But to me the future is still black and blank as a vast ignorance, lit in a few casual places by the memory of this story. And I have by me for my comfort two strange white flowers, shriveled now, and brown and flat and brittle to witness that even when mind and strength have gone, gratitude and a mutual tenderness still lived on in the heart of man.” That means a lot to me. I actually hold on to that. I hold on to that so much, as such a prescient bit of thought, that I actually keep the flowers from my great-grandmother's grave in there with it. You know, I don't know what's gonna happen in the future, and all I can do is hope like everybody else and pray like everybody else. Cassidy: OK. Well, thank you, Dan. I understand that we've actually over-taxed you and asked you, you know, an incredible amount of information here, and you've been very generous. And I really want to thank you for ... Burisch: Well, it's my responsibility to say truth. Cassidy: OK. Well, you definitely do that and what I would like to also say is ... How do we fight them? For the people that are out there, and what we know is, unity is one way in which we are progressing out of a certain timeline into another. Right? Burisch: Yes. Cassidy: OK, but if you have anything else to add to that for people ... [Marci, off-screen]: I'd like to add something. Constant vigilance. Burisch: Yes. That's good, very good. Constant vigilance. Also, there are many operatives, not just like Marcia and myself, but many operatives that are coming out of the old Majestic, who have had experiences like this. Most of those operatives are not willing to say anything. However, that doesn't mean that they're not doing things. We are acting in concert with some of those operatives and with other groups to try to motivate the information from the inside which could be used for the beneficial application for humanity. We're doing our very best to motivate that through and some of it is being seen, very little snippets of it ... the projects that we're proposing that are going to be coming in the future, like AARGO and ISIS. I guess the only thing I can really say, aside from the constant vigilance, is to act to the right. When a wrong needs to be righted or there needs to be a stand taken for what is right versus wrong, that our present time doesn't mean that we have to ... that we're so modern we have to get rid of the ideal for the real. We create our own reality, and so we should, in my view, act toward the ideal to create a better real for ourselves.

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INTERVIEW WITH DAVID ICKE David Vaughan Icke (born April 29, 1952) is an English writer and public speaker best known for his views on what he calls "who and what is really controlling the world." Describing himself as the most controversial speaker and author in the world, he has written 18 books explaining his position, dubbed New Age– conspiracism, and has attracted a substantial following across the political spectrum. His 533-page The Biggest Secret (1999) has been called the conspiracy theorist's Rosetta Stone. Icke was previously known as a well-known BBC television sports presenter and spokesman for the Green Party, when he had an encounter in 1990 with a psychic who told him he was a healer placed on Earth for a purpose. The headlines attracted an invitation from the BBC's prime-time Terry Wogan show on April 29, 1991. Icke told Wogan, amid howls of laughter from the studio audience, that he was "the son of God," and that Britain would be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes. He later said he had been misinterpreted, and that he had used the term "the son of God" to mean an "aspect" of the infinite consciousness. The interview proved devastating for him. As the audience laughed, Wogan memorably pointed out that they were laughing at him, not with him, and his humiliation seemed complete. He disappeared from public life, and for several years was unable to walk down the street without people pointing at and mocking him. His children were followed to school by journalists and ridiculed by schoolmates, and his wife would open the back door to get the washing in, only to find a camera crew filming her. The BBC was criticized for allowing the interview to go ahead, Des Christy in The Guardian calling it a "media crucifixion." Wogan interviewed Icke again in 2006, acknowledging that his comments had been a bit sharp, but Icke said the situation had been the making of him in the end, that the laughter had set him free. He wrote that every bridge back to his past was ablaze, giving him the courage to develop his ideas without caring what anyone thought of him. Icke's core ideas are put forward in four books—The Robots' Rebellion (1994), And the Truth Shall Set You Free (1995), The Biggest Secret: The Book that Will Change the World (1999), and Children of the Matrix (2001)— self-published by his Bridge of Love Publications or David Icke Books. Discussion about the nature of consciousness is intermingled with unsourced allegations against named individuals, including that certain senior politicians are Satanic paedophiles, and that the Swine flu vaccinations are a deliberate attempt to cull the world's population. He argues that human beings are the result of a breeding program conducted by a race of reptilians called Anunnaki from the Draco constellation, and that what we call reality is nothing but a "five-sense illusion," or holographic experience. The only reality is the realm of the Absolute. He believes in a collective consciousness that has intentionality; in reincarnation; in other possible worlds that exist alongside ours on other frequencies; and in acquired characteristics, arguing that our experiences change our DNA by downloading new information and 157 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

overwriting the software. We are also able to attract experiences to ourselves, by means of good and bad thoughts. Icke argues that humanity was created, and is controlled, by a network of secret societies run by an ancient race of interbreeding bloodlines from the Middle and Near East, originally extraterrestrial. Icke calls them the "Babylonian Brotherhood." The Illuminati, Round Table, Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, the IMF, United Nations, the media, military, science, religion, and the Internet are all Brotherhood created and controlled.[29] The Brotherhood is mostly male. Their children are raised from an early age to understand the mission; those who don't are pushed aside. Key Brotherhood bloodlines are the British House of Windsor, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, European royalty and aristocracy, and the Eastern establishment families of the United States. At the apex of the Brotherhood stands the "Global Elite," identified throughout history as the Illuminati, and at the top of the Global Elite stand the "Prison Wardens." The goal of the Brotherhood—their "Great Work of Ages," or the "Brotherhood Agenda"—is world domination and a micro-chipped population. In The Biggest Secret, David Icke reveals in documented, sourced detail how the same interconnecting bloodlines have controlled the planet for thousands of years. How they created all the major religions and suppressed the spiritual and esoteric knowledge that will set humanity free from its mental and emotional prisons. It includes an exposé of the true origins of Christianity and the other major religions and documents the suppressed science which explains why the world is facing a time of incredible change and transformation. As a kid, says Icke, I always wondered how a few islands which you can hardly see on the globe could have an Empire that spanned the world. Now the reason is obvious. It was not the Great British Empire at all. It was the empire of the Babylonian Brotherhood. The following interview took place with David Icke hosted by Kenneth Burke of Leading Edge Newspaper. Burke: David, I realize that creating a thumbnail sketch of connecting the dots that are in your new book, "The Biggest Secret," is difficult, but could you connect a few dots for our readers, so they'll at least understand the basic premise of your work? Icke: Yes, I can, actually. "The Biggest Secret" is 550 pages with 60 illustrations and over 40 pictures. I really pushed the boat out with it. It's in great detail, and the material is tremendously sourced as much as possible. I can actually summarize the story very simply. What my research and my unbelievably synchronistic life in terms of the research have shown me, explained in great detail in the book is that, if you go far enough back, you pick up not just one extraterrestrial race, but extraterrestrial races, which interbred with humanity. There is one particular group, within an extraterrestrial race, which operates within the physical world (certainly from within the Earth), and its primary place of focus is the lower fourth dimension, which people call the astral level. This is the reptilian race. I suggest strongly in the book that, those we call the Anunnaki (in the Sumerian Tablets) are actually a reptilian race. I am not alone in this. Dr. David Arthur Horne has written a book, "Humanity’s Extraterrestrial Origins", and has made the same connections that I have.

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I make these connections, not just from intuition, but from a tremendous amount of ancient and modern evidence that shows that this reptilian connection travels right through these thousands of years to the present day. Some of these references to serpents and dragons are obviously symbolic, not the least, the Kundalini energy and other things, but when you look at the evidence, there is a tremendous number of literal references to serpent people - serpent gods. When you do the research, again, into the area where this seems to have happened in the Caucasus Mountains, in what we now call Turkey, Iran and Iraq, which we called Sumer and Babylon, and into the plains of Egypt (the area particularly around the Caucasus Mountains seems to be the place where these bloodlines came out). This interbreeding occurred between the human race and this reptilian group within a race. Now, I don't see the reptilian genetic stream as negative in itself - quite the opposite - it's just this particular group within it. The Sumerian Tablets and many other accounts, all over the world, talk about the fact that these hybrids became the demigods, the middle men and women between the gods and humanity. If you look at some of the history of Iran, the earliest kings were called the serpent kings, and they became kings as a result of their genetic structure and their family bloodlines. This is where the Divine right of kings comes from. Where we lost the plot is that it didn't refer to god - if you like, everything that exists - it referred to the GODS. Now, around 2200 B.C., something emerged in Egypt, called the Royal Court of the Dragon. That is still going strong, today, 4000 years later, and it's based in England, which is, for me, the epicenter of global control - the epicenter of the network that controls the world - not Tony Blair's government (although he is a big front-man for them) - but the epicenter of control is in the area, which we call the city of London - the financial district and the other interlocking areas. As you probably know, London is the great sprawl of London and, within it, is an area, which is called the City of London. That's the financial district, basically, where the Bank of England is. Basically, the control of the world financial markets is there. So, when you do the genealogy, and I've done quite a bit already, as well as the history, you can follow this basically Aryan race of people, who came originally to Britain by ship under the name of the Phoenicians, who are a very significant part of history, which conventional history pushes to the sidelines. I show in the book that the Phoenician culture became the British culture. They worshipped two deities: one was called Barat, the male, and the other was called Barati, the female. They became Britain and Britainnia, and I've pictured in the book the Phoenician depiction of Barati and the British depiction of Britainnia, and what was said about them, and they are staggeringly the same. These people also flowed overland, changing their names from time to time. They became the white peoples of Europe. Within this genetic structure were these reptilian/human hybrids.

The hybrids that were the rulers of the ancient Near and Middle East became the European aristocracy and the royal families of Europe. Now, there is only one royal family - just under different names. The Windsors are certainly one of these lines.

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The key expansion point, for these bloodlines to literally take over the planet, came after 1689, when one of these bloodlines, called William of Orange (to whom every surviving royal family in Europe is related) was put on the throne of England, coming from Holland. From 1689, these bloodlines, which have become known as the Illuminati, made their epicenter of their operational level in the City of London. It was in 1694 that William of Orange signed the charter that created the Bank of England, and the whole central banking system started to move with this interlocking leadership. This is why you have a central bank in virtually every country, because they have an interlocking leadership and run the economies of their countries and hold the purse strings of the government. The real thing that emerged in the years following this centering of the operation in London was, of course, the Great British Empire. I now understand that it wasn't the Great British Empire, at all. It was the empire of these bloodlines that had placed themselves in Britain, which is quite another thing. Therefore, these bloodlines, operating covertly, overwhelmingly in the white race, but certainly not only, became the people who took the banking business, media, and political power in all these different countries of the British Empire. Although we appear to see that the British Empire has contracted, and people have got their independence, we can very clearly see that the prisons with the bars (the overt control of these countries by Britain) have been replaced with prisons without bars, which are the secret society network and the bloodlines still operating covertly in those countries and running the show. The way it works, incidentally, is that you have the epicenter in London. Then, in each of these countries, you have what I call the bloodline branch managers, who operate that country on behalf of the centrally coordinated agenda. So, when the agenda is being orchestrated to bring something about on a global level, for example microchipping, then the bloodline branch managers in that country manipulate and organize in their particular sphere of influence, like the Rockefellers in America and the Eastern establishment families, like the Oppenheimers in South Africa. These branch managers orchestrate their family and country in line with the global agenda coming out of Europe (particularly London but Paris, to some extent), as well. It's like a spider's web or a transnational corporation, with branches in every country. A wonderful example of that is in South Africa. I was there, about this time last year, and did a lot of research and talking. Before Mandela became president, there was overt control of South Africa by a white-minority apartheid regime, but there was tremendous opposition around the world to apartheid. People had banners in the air and protests and all that. At that time, the Oppenheimer family controlled 80% of the stock in the South African stock market and the rest by implication. They owned the media through various front men, and they owned the diamond and gold mines, on which the country's economy depends. They had to switch to so-called democracy, and Mandela was put into the presidency. Of course, the banners then went down, and people walked away, saying, well, South Africa is sorted. The world's getting freer. After Mandela became president, to this day, the Oppenheimer family now only owns 80% of the stock on the stock market and the rest by implication. They only own the gold and diamond mines on which the economy depends, and they only own the media through various front men, not the least, an Irishman, called Tony O'Reilly. The difference is, no one is screaming human rights or lack of freedom, any more, because there is a black man in the presidency. I have been around South Africa and, if 160 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

anything, there are more shanty towns, now - more Soweto-type places in South Africa than ever before. Nothing has changed for the people, except on the surface. In terms of choice, in terms of the quality of their lives, nothing has changed. The same people are running the country, but they are running it unchallenged, now, because of the prison bars replaced by prisons with no bars. Let me interject that these reptilian bloodlines overwhelmingly come out of Europe from France and Britain. Alsace-Lorraine is a particularly important area for them. So, this is how it works: When you do the genealogy of the American presidents, it's stunning. This information comes from Burke's Peerage, which is the Bible of aristocratic genealogy, based in London. Every presidential election in America, since and including George Washington in 1789 to Bill Clinton, has been won by the candidate with the most British and French royal genes. Of the 42 presidents to Clinton, 33 have been related to two people: Alfred the Great, King of England, and Charlemagne, the most famous monarch of France. So it goes on: 19 of them are related to England's Edward III, who has 2000 blood connections to Prince Charles. The same goes with the banking families in America. George Bush and Barbara Bush are from the same bloodline - the Pierce bloodline, which changed its name from Percy, when it crossed the Atlantic. Percy is one of the aristocratic families of Britain, to this day. They were involved in the Gunpowder Plot to blow up Parliament at the time of Guy Fawkes and all that. So, George Bush is related to Charlemagne and Alfred the Great. He is related to Franklin Delano Roosevelt. You know, these different bloodlines have taken different names, but they follow the genealogy like crazy. Because they go under different names, people obviously don't see the pattern. If Clinton and the secretary of state were Rockefellers and the main newsreader on NBC was a Rockefeller, then, people would say, excuse me, what's going on here. So, they have different names. That's irrelevant. It's the bloodline that matters. The Bush family is one example, because, over these last three generations, or so, it has carried the same name, and you can actually see the way it works. The idea that anyone can become president of the United States is utter bunkum, and that is a very important statement. That idea is actually one of the foundations of American's belief that they live in a free country. Well, I can tell you that it is absolutely untrue. If you go back two generations, according to the research, you find Prescot Bush, George Bush's father, was involved in various political maneuvers and he was a member of the Skull and Crossbones Society at Yale University. In the next generation, you have George, who was prepared from birth and brought up to hold positions of power, and he went on to become head of the CIA, the Vice President, and, in fact, President for three terms (two of them officially Reagan's). He was head of the Republican Party at the time of the Watergate hearings. He was a U.N. Ambassador and an unofficial ambassador to China. All these were key positions. Now, we are seeing the next generation of the Bush family - the Bush bloodline - with Jeb Bush the Governor of Florida and George W. Bush now being feted as the next President of the United States. So, you can see it over three generations, with the Bushes, but, in these other bloodlines, you can't see it because they have different names. According to Burke's Peerage, even according to the official genealogy, Bill Clinton is genetically related to the House of Windsor, the present royal family in Britain; to every Scottish monarch; to King Henry 161 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

III of England; and to Robert I of France. I am seeing more and more compelling research information that Clinton is actually a Rockefeller, one generation back, which would explain a tremendous amount about why this so-called kid off the street of Arkansas was given a Rhodes scholarship to Oxford University, which only goes to hand-picked people. He was put under the tutelage of Carol Quigley, one of the insiders at Georgetown University, who wrote massive tomes about the manipulation of this group in the 20th century, "Tragedy and Hope" and "The Anglo-American Establishment," etc. At a very early age, Clinton became governor of what everyone seemed to accept as the Rockefeller State of Arkansas. Then, of course, he became the President of the United States. These people are brought through because of their bloodlines, and the bloodlines relate to the fact that it has a genetic and, therefore, a vibrational compatibility with these fourth-dimensional reptilian beings, who can operate through these physical bloodlines, much like someone donning a space suit. They can work into the third dimension through these particular lines.

Burke: Let me ask this, so, I can understand how it works. Let's say, the core group (in your understanding) is based in the City of London in England. Icke: That is the operational level. You know, you have an operational level, like a headquarters, where everything is organized and coordinated, but that is not necessarily the epicenter of power. That could well be somewhere else on the planet. I get under the ground in Tibet, every time I think about it. I think that these endless legends of underground communities, Agartha, and all this stuff, have a basis in fact. But, what I'm talking about is that the center of the web, where things are coordinated, is definitely London, and Paris, to an extent, as well. Burke: In the same way that metaphysically oriented people believe we have spirit guides, are these reptilian entities impacting these people, who have physical bodies, without their knowledge, or are they shapeshifters, who are folding time? What does your research show? Icke: That's a great question, and there are two levels to it. One is those I call the full-bloods. I talk about them in the book. They include the House of Windsor (the Royal Family of Britain), George Bush, and those sort of people. While we have our focus in the third dimension, they actually have their 162 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

focus in the fourth dimension. They can move between the two and can look into this dimension in the fourth. These are what I call the full-bloods. Now, compared with the population of the world, there aren't many of them. They are shapeshifters. Then there are the lower genetic lines, but they are still very reptilian in their content. I call them the hybrids. These people, overwhelmingly, do not know who they are, but those orchestrating things do know, because they follow the bloodlines and genetics, with a stunning obsession. What they are looking for in the hybrids is to possess them from the fourth dimension. Therefore, they get invited into the secret society networks and put through various rituals, which, of course, they have to join to make any real progress. They don't understand what they're doing. Most of them don't understand that words and ritual create energy fields. And, energy fields, if you don't know what you're doing, can be very dangerous things, in terms of the ways you can be manipulated. Then, in these rituals, the orchestrators are plugging these overwhelmingly unknowing people into this lower fourth-dimensional consciousness. They are being possessed by them. If you look at the history of Hitler, it's fascinating. This person used to sit in the street, trying to sell paintings. He certainly had a charisma-bypass, it would seem. He was put through a series of rituals, by a man called Eckart, and Hitler emerged at the other end as this strutting, crazed, contorted faced man, who was generating a magnetic energy that captivated a nation, thankfully, for only a very few years. What Eckart actually wrote to friends of his, and I quote this in the book, is that his friends shouldn't worry about Eckart, because he had effected German history more than anyone else. He said, "I have connected Hitler with THEM." Hitler was plugged into the lower fourth dimension and was being a puppet for these lower astral reptilian beings. How I came across all this stuff was typical of the synchronicity of my life. In a book, called "And the Truth Shall Set You Free," I wrote about the structure of control in the world, today. Then, I thought that it doesn't take a genius to see that this structure wasn't put together in five minutes or five years, so, when did it start? I started going back, to find the origin of this manipulation. I got completely back to the time of the Crusades, the 1100s and 1200s, the Knights Templar and all those people, and I went on back to thousands of years B.C., in Babylon, which seems to have been a major center for these particular reptilian/human bloodlines. From that center, they started infiltrating and taking over some of the other societies, not in the least Egypt, that disintegrated and deteriorated, as a result. Then, they moved their epicenter to Rome and became the Roman Empire. Then, they moved further into London and became the British Empire, and this is where it has all come from. I got far enough back and started hitching endless stories around the world about these hybrids - not always mentioning reptilian, but mentioning this interbreeding between the gods and humanity, creating these hybrid bloodlines. Then, about a year ago, I started to have the most extraordinary experiences in my travels. In a period of 15 days in May 1998, I met 12 different people, from totally different walks of life (business people involved in Swiss banking on through to television presenters and others), who told me this same story - that they had seen people, who were overwhelmingly in positions of power, but not always, who

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turned into reptilian forms before their eyes, then, go back again. A policeman was one who had this story to tell.

Burke: Do you think it was done on purpose or because the frequency of the planet took away their covers momentarily? Icke: It seems to me, that it is two things. First, I think there are certain frequency energy fields, in which they find it much harder to hold human form. But, the main thing is that they are lower fourth dimensional beings, in terms of their focus, and that's not very far from this dimension. I think peoples' consciousnesses flick onto that energy for a brief time. The people then cease to see those reptilian beings in their three-dimensional form, and they see them in their fourth-dimensional form. They cease to be their three-dimensional covers and are seen as their fourth-dimensional reptilian beings. These people see beyond the space suit, if you like. Now, this has gone on and on. Talk about somebody trying to tell me something. This is now extremely well into three figures of people, all over the world, who have told me the same story. I was in Vancouver, where six separate people told me the same stories, including one business woman - a grounded businesswoman, who has a large business of her own. She actually had two different relationships with guys, particularly one, who, during sex, actually manifested as a reptile. Now, how is that for a shock? The stories go on. Then, I remembered that I'd read a book by Kathy O'Brien, "Trance Formation of America", several years ago.

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Burke: Yes. We interviewed her. Icke: I remember thinking, "Hold on a minute, I'm sure she mentioned the reptiles in that book." So, I went and got it, because I know there is a case to answer. Too many people in Britain, Australia, and America, from so many different walks of life, have told me the same thing. Some of them are not into metaphysics at all and are thoroughly shocked. Anyway, I looked down the references and found reptiles. Kathy talks about the fact that George Bush had told her that they were an extraterrestrial race, who had taken over the planet and no one realizes it, and that they came from deep far-off space. She said that he just changed in front of her face into a reptile. One guy actually, very briefly, rang my office in America, last January, and said, "I've heard you have a new book coming out. What's it about." I said, "It's a bit - it will take you aback. I can't really explain it. You'd have to read it from start to finish, otherwise, it would just sound crazy." So, we talked about things. He said, "I can't talk about this to many people, but can you explain to me why I keep seeing people, like Bush, Kissinger, and Gorbachev turn into reptiles when I see them on television?" I thought, "Shoot. I know that." Anyway, Kathy O'Brien talks about seeing a number of politicians in America turning into reptiles. She rationalized it as part of the MKULTRA mind control program. The other story that she told was being with Miguel de la Madrid, the President of Mexico during the 80s, and she said that he told her the story of what he called the Iguana Race. Of course, this book was published long before I started coming across this information. She said that he said to her that the Iguana Race, a reptilian extraterrestrial race, had interbred with the ancient Mexican people - the Mayans and others because they needed to create bloodlines, bodies that they could work through, and that these particular bloodlines - the Iguana/human bloodlines, could shapeshift and take either human or reptilian form. She also said that he changed into a reptile in front of her. So, I started to look back, then, thinking that, time is so short a period that we call known human history, if this is going on now, it must be a very good chance that it was going on before. So, I started scanning the ancient accounts of the reptilian race and the serpent race, and, my goodness me - you find the Nagas - some of the gods of the Indus Valley, which became the Hindu culture - were said to take either human or reptilian form at will. You will find other references, around the world to this. By this time, I'd established that the House of Windsor, the Royal Family of Britain, which is actually a German line and goes back to the "black nobility" in northern Italy of Venice, which can be followed back to the Middle East and the Near East, was one of these bloodlines - not that they were reptilian, but they were one of the elite bloodlines. So, a couple of members of the House of Lords in Britain asked to talk with them, because they knew about this conspiracy and wanted to know more about what I knew. A woman at the meeting would say things about Diana, Princess of Wales, every now and then. I found her very interesting. Afterwards, I said, "We've got to talk." She said, "We have." I asked her, "How do you know this about Diana?" She said, "Well, my closest friend was Diana's closest confidante on esoteric matters for nine years. She was her healer." Now, this had even come out in the press, at some point. This lady was on the front page of the tabloid press as the person, who was giving spiritual healing to Diana. This

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particular woman had never spoken to anyone before, but, for some reason, she spoke to me. I quote her, at length, in the book. She told me about the tremendous mistreatment of Diana by the Windsors. I hadn't gone to see this lady about reptiles. I went to see her about Diana and the Windsors. As the conversation unfolded, she said, "You know what Diana's nickname for the Windsors was?" I said, "No, go on." She said, "The lizards and the reptiles." She said, "Diana used to say to me, in all seriousness, 'They're not human.'" She said, "You know, this might be hard to believe, but the Windsors are a reptilian bloodline. They're reptilian, and it's reptilians who are actually running the planet." I also came across the son of a New York lawyer. That law firm, during the early part of the century, represented people, like the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, and the Morgans. I talked to him in Phoenix, just a few weeks ago. He was going into the law firm, and he said to me that he got out, because he realized that this global manipulation was going on, this agenda existed, and that the bloodlines that were behind it were reptilian. Another interesting thing that happened, when I was in South Africa, at this time last year, I met a Zulu shaman, who asked to meet me. I was only two days off the plane, and I had never been to South Africa. I got this invitation to meet this shaman, whom I met and spent five hours talking to him. At one point in the conversation, he said to me, "You know, your Lady Diana (who was dead, by that time, of course), I had a call from her one day." I thought, "Oh, yeah? What's going on?" He said, "She called me in March 1997, before she died in August." She said to me that she was calling from a supermarket phone in England. He said, "First, I didn't believe that it was Diana, because why would she call me. Secondly, I certainly didn't believe it when she said she was calling from a supermarket phone." Now, when I told this story to Diana's confidante, Christine Fitzgerald, the healer, she said, "Well, that makes perfect sense, because Diana knew that Kensington Palace phones are bugged, and that all the official places she phoned from were bugged. So, she used to go into a supermarket or a department store in Kensington, just down the road, and used a public phone, when she wanted a clean line." Now, the shaman wouldn't tell me exactly what she said, but he did say, "She rang me." I now realize that they had a mutual contact, which is why she'd heard about him. Now, this Zulu shaman has talked widely about extraterrestrials and his own extraterrestrial experiences. He said that Diana rang him and said, "I need your advice. I've got something to reveal about the Windsors that will shake the world, and don't know how to reveal it." He wouldn't tell me what it was. The fear on his face was obvious as I was pressing him to tell me, and it showed me that he was terrifically afraid. He just went into shutdown mode. Burke: From your information, which is obviously vastly researched, what are the plans for these reptiles for the Earth in the next two or three years? Icke: What we call the New World Order is the reptilian fourth dimensional agenda. They want to create chaos in the world, including massive wars. So, this structure of world government, world 166 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

central bank, world currency, electronic banking and no cash at all, a microchip population and a world army, which is NATO... as I've been writing about for years in my books... the global police force. They are planning to create tremendous chaos across the millennium years, using a global version of the most powerful mind control techniques, which I call problem-reaction-solution; you create the problem, you get the "something must be done" reaction from the public, and then you offer the solution that you wanted enacted in the first place. If you want to introduce global solutions, you need global problems, and I foresee this coming, big time. The problem apparently is that the planet's frequency on the planet is getting faster and faster and those who knowingly shapeshift are finding it harder and harder to hold their human form. I'm told that there is an obsession by these reptile beings and an almost panic to get their institutions of control in place, especially the microchip population. They know that in a few years that the frequency of the planet will have reached a speed in which it will no longer be possible for them to hold their human form no matter what they do, and we'll finally see that it is the reptiles who have been running our planet. Burke: They won't be able to hide anymore. Icke: Right. By this time, the insiders tell me, the reptiles want the microchip population in place, they want the world army, NATO, in place and they want to have as much physical control as possible of our three dimensional world so that we humans, in the reptiles opinion, can do nothing about their control of our planet.

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INTERVIEW WITH WENDY ALEC Wendy Alec was born in wellbeck street in the heart of London, England. She left the United Kingdom at the age of eight and grew up on the coast of Durban, South Africa. Coached in speech and drama from the age of nine, it was apparent from an early age that she would follow a career in the arts. Immediately after leaving school, she trained in speech and drama, paving the way for an intensive creative career that would span the next twenty years. She married Rory Alec in 1987 and the couple moved to the UK in 1991 The early 1990s saw her enter the advertising industry as a copywriter, then as creative director of a TV commercial production house before launching with her husband Europe’s first daily faith based TV network in 1995 known as the God Channel In addition to her role in television, Wendy has several screenplays presently in development. She was coached in screenplay writing from Hollywood professionals and says her approach to writing is unusual. “My whole life has been saturated in the media, creating TV programming and visuals and as a Creative Director, before I see words, I see images. As soon as I sit down to write my mind is invaded with visuals and I've been blown away by the thousands of readers that write saying they’ve actually been able to see the books as they turn the pages, just like they’re watching a movie.”

The author relies heavily on her faith in the writing process. According to an interview with the 700 Club: "She had to ask God for permission to write The Fall of Lucifer and each part of the book. Wendy was very careful with her choices of writing and where the novel has gone. She always was seeking God's approval on everything."

TV4Life Magazine refers to Wendy as 'a founder of one of the world’s fastest-growing TV networks.' Anderson-Wai, Sally "Close up with the founders of one of the world’s fastest-growing TV networks', TV4Life Magazine, London, UK.

As GOD TV’s Director of Television, she is responsible for the network’s international branding and programming. She won a Gold Exploits Award from the Christian Broadcasting Council in 2007 for The Global Day of Prayer Live. Most recently she received Gold awards in 2010 for the ‘Best Ministry TV Program’ for ‘Soul Survivor’ and ‘Best Music TV Programme’ for 'Delirous? Night’. Wendy is the host of GOD TV’s ‘A Word from Heaven’ series and co-host of ‘Behind the Screens', the Rory & Wendy Show' and ‘Apocalypse and the End Times’. Since its launch in 2005 ‘The Chronicles of Brothers’ epic fantasy saga has sold over a quarter of a million copies and has developed a mass following. Originally written as a screenplay, the first book in the series, ‘The Fall of Lucifer’ was released in January 2006; the second book, ‘Messiah – The First Judgement in November 2007 and Son of Perdition in December 2009. The fourth book in the series, ‘A Pale Horse’ is currently being written for release in 2012.

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Chronicles of Brothers is a series of seven fantasy novels written by Wendy Alec. Set in the First Heaven, Earth and Hell the books follow the stories of three angelic brothers, Lucifer, Michael and Gabriel and three earthly brothers, Jason, Adrian and Nick De Verre. The narrative interweaves interpretations of Biblical texts, particularly the Book of Revelation, with Alec’s own imagination. GP Taylor author of Shadowmancer has described The Fall of Lucifer as “a plot that leaves Da Vinci Code in the shade.” Clem Jackson of the Christian Marketplace, London, UK writes: Having bemoaned the lack of good quality Christian fiction from the UK The Fall of Lucifer landed on my desk and my plea was answered. This is quite simply the best piece of thriller fiction I’ve read in a long time. Already into its second reprint, the High Street stores are shifting it fast – and so should the Christian retail trade too. This is only the first in a series of six novels and charts the demise of Lucifer, the Prince Regent of Heaven, due to his insane jealousy of a new species created by Yehovah, the human race. It tells of what happened when Lucifer fell and became Satan, King of the second heaven and ruler of the race of men and how his brothers, Michael and Gabriel had to deal with the fall of their much-beloved brother. This is a real page-turner and kept me gripped throughout; it’s one I will read again. Bring on the next in the series, The Messiah.", Christian Marketplace, UK, August 2006. Jim MacDonald says: "The front cover of Wendy Alec's 'The Fall of Lucifer' says everything you need to know about this novel. Under the title the words 'an epic novel' appear, an accurate description of this gripping tale. The Fall of Lucifer is indeed nothing short of epic. Opening with the wonders of heaven, Alec creates vivid landscapes and enthralling, emotional plots. The author is obviously a master of the fantasy genre. The Fall of Lucifer is book one of the Chronicles of Brothers. The plot revolves around three archangelic brothers. Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer serve Yehovah, each commanding a third of his angelic host. They live a life both of service and joy, until Yehovah makes a decision Lucifer cannot abide. The decision to make a new creation. A creation built upon Yehovah's own genetic code. I think most people are familiar with the Christian idea of the origin of Satan. The Fall of Lucifer uses this as the basis of its plot, and it is indeed an intriguing subject. The wonder of this book is often not the plot, but the emotional interplay between characters. How do Michael and Gabriel cope with the defection of their angelic brother? How does Yehovah himself react to an act of treason? The emotional interplay between angelic and demonic characters in the realms of heaven, hell and Earth drew me into this book, capturing my interest in a way few books have recently. This is the best work of fiction I have read since the last installment of Dean Koontz Frankenstein series. I am generally afraid of Christian fiction. Too often the plot is pushed aside in order to address the theological issues behind the writer's intent. "The Fall of Lucifer" does indeed contain a fair amount of Christian doctrine, and even quotations from scripture. Wendy Alec has tied this into the plot so well that the storyline never stops moving.

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While I was led to see the author's spiritual views at several points in the book, never did this detract from the plot or the emotional tone of the story. The Fall of Lucifer is among the best fiction I have read. This book grabbed my attention in the first few pages, and I was unable to turn away until I had read the final words. I am anxiously awaiting book two in the Chronicles of Brothers. It's been a long time since I've read a book so engrossing that it kept me awake at night. This intricate, imaginative, thought provoking fantastic adventure is just that kind of book.", 1340Mag.com

A previous interview took place with Wendy Alec and www.Bookthink.com in which she gives more insight into the reason for her work. BOOKTHINK: Where are you from? ALEC I was born in the very centre of London, England, grew up on the shores of the Indian Ocean in Durban, South Africa and am now living in Cornwall, England. BOOKTHINK: When and why did you begin writing? ALEC I started writing my first rock opera - "Take the Pill Marked 'X'," when I was just nineteen, just fresh out of drama school - to me it incorporated my two great loves - music and drama. Writing found a way to transcribe everything I visualised in my head down on paper - it's the same today! BOOKTHINK: What inspired you to write your first book? ALEC I had started writing the screenplay called "Brothers" - a concept about three Archangel brothers (I was lucky enough to have been trained in my twenties by a specialist screenplay tutor from Hollywood) and was on about my fortieth rewrite for a concept I'd conceived for years when I was forced to take a long hard look at my day-to-day schedule and realised that, with my intensely frenetic day job of running the programming and network side of a multinational television channel, it was unlikely the film would get into development/pre-production until around five years later. Screenplay writing is a completely different genre to writing a novel - lean and mean versus a far freer reign. So in my down time I decided to turn the concept into a fantasy novel - purely to get the burgeoning storyline in my head down onto paper. BOOKTHINK: Who or what has influenced your writing? ALEC My father was an amazingly gifted man. He was a doctor who practised in London's Wimpole street for years but also played the violin, studied Russian and most of all had an incredible sense of life, people and humour. He urged me to write more than anyone, especially before he died! I remember him saying with profound passion: "Wendy - write. You have to write." He felt that it was destiny for me. BOOKTHINK: How did you come up with the title Chronicles of Brothers? ALEC I felt it was what is termed in Hollywood the high concept line - there have been many books on angels - but I felt that the high concept was that the saga revolves around three Archangels, Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer who are brothers, and then in the third novel, Son of Perdition, it jumps from the first heaven to earth, to three human brothers, The De Vere Brothers, so it is very character driven and all seven books revolve around two sets of brothers - The Archangel Brothers Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer and the De Vere Brothers from the Race of Men. BOOKTHINK: What book are you reading now? 170 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

ALEC Research books for Son Of Perdition on the Illuminati/Twin Towers link with Terrorism/Secret Societies. BOOKTHINK: What are your current projects? ALEC My hectic day job in television and in down time preparing for the rapidly approaching film development schedule ahead for Brothers, which will involve creating the conceptual artwork, storyboards and then pre-visuals before moving on to pre-production. BOOKTHINK: Who is your favourite author, and what is it that really strikes you about their work? ALEC If I simply had to choose - although my style and genre is so very very different from his - I always found Robert Ludlum's complex, exceptionally visual storylines and their hidden lateral twists extremely compelling and brilliant, bordering on genius. BOOKTHINK: Do you have to travel much concerning your books? ALEC I travel a fair amount, so luckily I can write about what I know. I do hope to travel more re research in the future. BOOKTHINK: Who designed the covers? ALEC Part of my role in TV involves being a creative director, so it was really important to me setting the whole genre for Brothers. I worked with a great fantasy illustrator in the USA, a second illustrator in Australia for the back view of Lucifer, and then compiled the entire book with a designer I work closely with here in Cornwall - I'm a visual junkie! I choose every font, colour, every detail until its right. BOOKTHINK: What was the hardest part of writing your book? ALEC Not doing it full-time - I grabbed whatever free time I had. In between writing it, I headed up the TV side of a major launch into the USA and nearly died of exhaustion. I can't imagine what it must be like to have the luxury of writing fulltime. But I just love all the media activities I'm involved in, luckily. BOOKTHINK: Do you have any advice for other writers? ALEC Passion - Passion - Passion - and hopefully some great talent with it. And never give up. If you can see it and believe it, it' possible! BOOKTHINK: Do you have anything specific that you want to say to your readers? ALEC Oh - you are just fantastic! The absolute best! Chronicles instantly seemed to develop a rapid cult following among so many of you. Also, so many genres of people just absolutely loved the stories - all age ranges - but the youth market especially seemed to get the whole concept immediately. It was your absolute passion, your comments on my space and emails, that often kept me going the extra mile. I dedicated Messiah: The First Judgement to you, my readers. I really felt that for all of those of you who fell in love with Book One - Book Two was your book. You are just amazing. I really hope you absolutely love Book Two!

171 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011

172 Interviews with Giants - Volume 1: A Production of Rema Marketing @2011